Caporegime
The GTX570 with its 520MM2 GPU is competing very well with the HD6970 and its 389MM2 GPU!
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NVidia Stock Price
- Thread starter bridder
- Start date
Don
But the point is, no one was expecting the GTX 580 for 3-4months when it was released. And by releasing the 570GTX at £280 completely killed any hope of AMD being able to even charge as much as the 5*** series. You only have to look at their pricing for the 68**, compared to the 57** to realise that AMD were looking to jack their prices up substantially if Nvidia's pricing philosophy for the 4** series wasn't going to change until later on this year.
Caporegime
The HD6970 is around the same price as GTX570. The GTX570 has a bigger GPU which costs more for Nvidia to make than the GPU in the HD6970.
The same goes with the GTX460 and the HD6850 and HD6870.
The GF104 is supposed to be at least 331MM2 whereas the HD6800 series has a 255MM2 GPU.
The Nvidia GPUs in both cases are around 30% larger than their AMD counterparts.
The same goes with the GTX460 and the HD6850 and HD6870.
The GF104 is supposed to be at least 331MM2 whereas the HD6800 series has a 255MM2 GPU.
The Nvidia GPUs in both cases are around 30% larger than their AMD counterparts.
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LOL,
The GTX580 is priced so high because it cant be manufactured properly ! Nvidia cant even build a dual core Fermi card because of the huge amount architectural flaws FERMI has.
Really you should be saying why wont Nvidia release a dual core card to fill the £400 bracket. and drop the GTX580 into £300 slot.
Nvidia are desperately tying to straddle two prices brackets with a card that's irrelevant in both.
The GTX580 is the worst single chip Fermi. IMO the only thing its has going for it is reduced noise levels.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2008
- Posts
- 6,024
As a great investor once said, 'be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful'. Nvida had been hammered. I read talk of 'going bust' on these forums and elsewhere, and how bad they were doing and likely to do.
I said before on these forums taht the tide will turn again for the better for Nvidia and Ati may become the underdog for a while (it's all good competition). NVidia may not actually do that great with the graphics cards in the near term but things are turning great elsewhere in their business, they're not just about PC graphics cards
I put my money where my mouth is, and after buying a Gtx 480 and realising what a great product they stillproduce and then checking out the company profile etc I picked some shares up for myself. I wasn't able to buy at the bottom due to my US Trading agreement/overseas trader expiring which I had to get sorted but still bought at a decent price and very happy I did. Didn't buy loads though but still a nice few £ made at the current levels. Not bragging however as I know how things can quickly turn and profit not made until sold.
Some are saying this share price rise might only be the start but nobody really knows, it might be the top
I said before on these forums taht the tide will turn again for the better for Nvidia and Ati may become the underdog for a while (it's all good competition). NVidia may not actually do that great with the graphics cards in the near term but things are turning great elsewhere in their business, they're not just about PC graphics cards
I put my money where my mouth is, and after buying a Gtx 480 and realising what a great product they stillproduce and then checking out the company profile etc I picked some shares up for myself. I wasn't able to buy at the bottom due to my US Trading agreement/overseas trader expiring which I had to get sorted but still bought at a decent price and very happy I did. Didn't buy loads though but still a nice few £ made at the current levels. Not bragging however as I know how things can quickly turn and profit not made until sold.
Some are saying this share price rise might only be the start but nobody really knows, it might be the top
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Yes I'm sure the Nvidia releases took ATI by surprise but I dont see how Nvidia have forced anything. The RRP's leave ATI a lot of room to increase prices as they stand.
£290 for the 6950 and £399 for the 6970 are well doable now, obviously they would never hold sales and the supply chain would fall to crap ! Not to mention the logistics head aches it would cause for the retail side, but its possible for them.
IMO the 400 Nvidia range was much stronger. £150-160 GTX470 and the £299 GTX480 that you could actually buy in volume would have give ATI much more to think about.
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Hang on a minute.....fastest single GPU available right now, coupled with reduced noise levels = worst single chip fermi
Really? how do you work that one out?
GTX580 is approx 14% faster on average than the 6970, while using ~18% more power and has less than 2% higher load temperature running benchmarks like vantage, heaven, etc. so basically your talking rubbish.
Associate
Nvidia Corp. (NVDA) is developing its first computer processor aimed at mainstream computing in a move that makes the company a direct challenger to Intel Corp. (INTC) and Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD).
The processor, based on Arm Holdings PLC (ARMH, ARM.LN) architecture, combines Nvidia's graphics with computer processing on the same chip, marking a new direction for the Santa Clara, Calif.-based company.
"This is one of the most strategic and important announcements ever made at Nvidia," Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang said at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
Nvidia has long been a major provider of graphics chips for PCs, but investors have begun to question whether the company's business could contract as rivals increase their graphics capabilities in their lower-priced products.
Intel and AMD also have been developing chips that combine graphics with processing on a single piece of silicon--something that eventually could eliminate the need for separate graphics chips, though Nvidia executives have insisted that won't happen.
Now, the company is hedging its bets by opening a new front in its increasing battles with the world's largest chip makers. The new product is Nvidia's first processor aimed at mainstream computing.
Meanwhile, Nvidia has been gaining traction with its mobile chip, dubbed "Tegra," netting several design wins over the past few months. The company said Wednesday that many smartphones, tablets and cars using Tegra 2 will be unveiled during CES. In addition, Huang touted a high-end category of smartphone that he calls the "Super Phone."
"There's a mobile computing revolution underway," Huang said.
Nvidia's newest initiative, however, expands beyond Tegra, targeting PCs, servers, workstations and supercomputers.
Nvidia's next challenge is to bring the new processor, code-named "Project Denver," to market. The company had struggled in a year marked by unexpected delays releasing its newest-generation chips and lost market share to rival AMD. Another set of delays could hurt Nvidia's chances for success with Project Denver.
Nvidia's CPU will be compatible with a new version of Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) widely used Windows operating system that has been adapted to work with ARM chips. Nvidia didn't provide a timeframe for the new chips, but Microsoft's new operating system isn't expected for two or more years.
Chips based on ARM's designs have been popular in the mobile arena, powering most tablets and smartphones, including the Apple Inc. (AAPL) iPhone and iPad.
While Microsoft has long sold software for cellphones that support ARM's technology, its desktop Windows software has long remained in the domain of mainstream desktops and notebooks running chips designed by Intel and AMD. Microsoft, which is facing pressure to respond to lightweight portable devices, is expected to unveil a retooled version of Windows designed for ARM-designed chips later at CES.
Also, Nvidia unveiled its next-generation graphics chips, dubbed the "GeForce 500M Series," that have been designed specifically to boost graphics capabilities of laptops to play better videogames and surf the Internet at an even faster clip.
CES, which runs through Sunday, will include announcements from numerous computer makers of new products that will feature the chips.
Nvidia shares, which are up 50% over the past there months and jumped 7.7% during the regular session, slipped 3 cents to $16.95 after hours.
-By Shara Tibken, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-2189; [email protected]
The processor, based on Arm Holdings PLC (ARMH, ARM.LN) architecture, combines Nvidia's graphics with computer processing on the same chip, marking a new direction for the Santa Clara, Calif.-based company.
"This is one of the most strategic and important announcements ever made at Nvidia," Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang said at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
Nvidia has long been a major provider of graphics chips for PCs, but investors have begun to question whether the company's business could contract as rivals increase their graphics capabilities in their lower-priced products.
Intel and AMD also have been developing chips that combine graphics with processing on a single piece of silicon--something that eventually could eliminate the need for separate graphics chips, though Nvidia executives have insisted that won't happen.
Now, the company is hedging its bets by opening a new front in its increasing battles with the world's largest chip makers. The new product is Nvidia's first processor aimed at mainstream computing.
Meanwhile, Nvidia has been gaining traction with its mobile chip, dubbed "Tegra," netting several design wins over the past few months. The company said Wednesday that many smartphones, tablets and cars using Tegra 2 will be unveiled during CES. In addition, Huang touted a high-end category of smartphone that he calls the "Super Phone."
"There's a mobile computing revolution underway," Huang said.
Nvidia's newest initiative, however, expands beyond Tegra, targeting PCs, servers, workstations and supercomputers.
Nvidia's next challenge is to bring the new processor, code-named "Project Denver," to market. The company had struggled in a year marked by unexpected delays releasing its newest-generation chips and lost market share to rival AMD. Another set of delays could hurt Nvidia's chances for success with Project Denver.
Nvidia's CPU will be compatible with a new version of Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) widely used Windows operating system that has been adapted to work with ARM chips. Nvidia didn't provide a timeframe for the new chips, but Microsoft's new operating system isn't expected for two or more years.
Chips based on ARM's designs have been popular in the mobile arena, powering most tablets and smartphones, including the Apple Inc. (AAPL) iPhone and iPad.
While Microsoft has long sold software for cellphones that support ARM's technology, its desktop Windows software has long remained in the domain of mainstream desktops and notebooks running chips designed by Intel and AMD. Microsoft, which is facing pressure to respond to lightweight portable devices, is expected to unveil a retooled version of Windows designed for ARM-designed chips later at CES.
Also, Nvidia unveiled its next-generation graphics chips, dubbed the "GeForce 500M Series," that have been designed specifically to boost graphics capabilities of laptops to play better videogames and surf the Internet at an even faster clip.
CES, which runs through Sunday, will include announcements from numerous computer makers of new products that will feature the chips.
Nvidia shares, which are up 50% over the past there months and jumped 7.7% during the regular session, slipped 3 cents to $16.95 after hours.
-By Shara Tibken, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-2189; [email protected]
Hang on a minute.....fastest single GPU available right now, coupled with reduced noise levels = worst single chip fermi
Easy, its now £150 more expensive.
Caporegime
It also has a 30% bigger GPU so it should be faster.
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Not everybody religiously sticks to the "bang for buck" theory "You pays your money and you takes your choice"
Some people really don't mind paying that bit extra for the best that's available at the time.
It's quite simple, if you want a top of the range GPU you've gotta be willing to stump up the cash, it's the way it's always been with new tech.
It's not just an Nvidia antic either, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread AMD would have inevitably upped the price of the 69** series if it hadn't been for Nvidias untimely (for AMD) GTX 5** series release.
It's clear for all to see the AMDs 69** series is a bit of a letdown in terms of actual graphical horsepower. I along with everyone else was expecting considerably better than what was actually released.
Granted "bang for buck" they're good value for money, but that's about all you can say about a pretty unremarkable video card series when compared to the competition.
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Of course, I will quite happily pay top money for a top end card, its just the GTX580 is not offering anything near top end performance even if you could pick one up at the Nvidia £380~ RRP. £450+ for just 10-15% over a £299 GTX480 is just paying mug TAX.
10-15% over GTX480 in the time frame is not what I would call top end, for that we will have to see what the HD6990 brings. Hopefully that will get high end back on track and push the GTX580 into its £300~ performance price slot, although I think the manufacturing issues are the main factor in the over pricing, so maybe even the strongest HD6990 will not help to reduce the price of the new Fermi that much.
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Caporegime
The GTX580 is only 10% faster than an HD6970 at 2560X1600:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6970/29.html
It is only 13% faster at 1920X1200.
For a 30% larger GPU and around a 40% to 50% higher price the GTX580 is a failure TBH.
The GTX570 uses the same GPU and can only compete against the HD6970. Nvidia has to price it at a similar level.
On top of this the GTX580 is basically a GTX480 with the extra shaders enabled. This means the drivers are mature.
OTH,the HD6900 series moved to a new shader layout meaning that newer drivers will mean improvements in performance. The HD6900 series have been out for only a few weeks.
Nvidia seems to have larger GPUs meaning that unless they price the graphics card higher than the equivalent AMD ones they probably will make less money.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6970/29.html
It is only 13% faster at 1920X1200.
For a 30% larger GPU and around a 40% to 50% higher price the GTX580 is a failure TBH.
The GTX570 uses the same GPU and can only compete against the HD6970. Nvidia has to price it at a similar level.
On top of this the GTX580 is basically a GTX480 with the extra shaders enabled. This means the drivers are mature.
OTH,the HD6900 series moved to a new shader layout meaning that newer drivers will mean improvements in performance. The HD6900 series have been out for only a few weeks.
Nvidia seems to have larger GPUs meaning that unless they price the graphics card higher than the equivalent AMD ones they probably will make less money.
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why should anybody care about the size of the gpu? apart from nvidia themselves.
Caporegime
In the end companies need to make money and if Nvidia has to make much bigger GPUs to compete with much smaller GPUs from AMD they are not winning at all. This is one of the problems the CPU division of AMD is having ATM when compared to Intel and this is why the newer AMD CPUs have apparently been designed to be smaller than the preceding generation. A smaller GPU means that AMD can make more of them too and still price them cheaper.
However,ATM AMD don't seem to be pricing them any cheaper than their Nvidia equivalents. It is only when Nvidia cuts prices that they follow suit and not the other way around. The same goes with the GTX470 when it had massive price cuts. The price cuts to the HD5870 only happened much later.
The HD6950 and HD6970 were available in larger quantities than the GTX570 and GTX580 at launch.
The fact that many HD6950 cards can be unlocked to HD6970 cards indicates that AMD could probably price the HD6970 even lower and still make a decent amount on the cards.
On top of this according to Gibbo,OcUK sold more HD6900 series in the first few hours after they were released than for the GTX570 when it was launched over a week before.
You do realise that the GTX480 was a faster card than the HD5870 but despite this AMD still sold loads of HD5800 series cards even with the GTX480 and GTX470 around.
If anything Nvidia really need the GTX560 as this should have slightly better than GTX470 performance while being much smaller. However,it cannot be much more faster as it will mean the GTX570 will have less sales.
AFAIK, it will be around the same size as the GF104 as it is based on this GPU and also make it around 10% to 15% smaller than the HD6950 which it will compete with. OTH,the HD6870 offers similar performance to a GTX470 meaning it will be slightly slower but cheaper to make as it will have a 30% smaller GPU.
ATM,AMD can afford to get into a price war more than Nvidia can.
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I guess this has something to do with it:
Intel to Pay NVIDIA $1.5 Billion
No Intel motherboards:
I guess NVidia are just after the processor patents then:
Intel to Pay NVIDIA $1.5 Billion
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/01/intelnvidia-bombshell-look-for-nvidia-gpu-on-intel-processor-die.ars said:
No Intel motherboards:
I guess NVidia are just after the processor patents then:
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This stop performance premium you talk about a lot still makes little sense when it's 10% more performance for 50%+ more money. 10% more performance isn't suddenly going to make unplayable games playable, you've got to be pulling quite high framerates in the first place to see any sort of worthwhile difference in FPS.
It's often not really about having the "best" it's about what makes sense, and spending 50% more money for 10% more performance that will make the smallest difference doesn't make any sense, that's why people go for the likes of 6950 crossfire over 580s because of the amount of performance a second 6950 brings compared to a 580.
So really, most of the time it's not about how much money is spent, and definitely not about "wanting the best" as you so often say, very few people care about that really.