OCUK Forums IPv6 Support

Soldato
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Hi All,

Does anybody know who hosts the OCUK forums and if they are a forum user?

I'm interested in knowing if they have any plans to offer the forum via IPv6? OCUK is a pretty major site in the UK (461 most popular in UK) so they do a fair amount of traffic. Many of the big ISP's are working on IPv6 so in the next few years a very large number of UK internet users will be capable of browsing via v6...

It would be great to see such a popular technology embrace the technology, so far it's really just been the big sites (Facebook, Netflix, Google, etc.)
 
Speaking personally about a generic query such as this (ie not OcUK specific)

Where is the upside?

100% of people can see it on v4

1-2% of those 100% could see it on v6 too..

Where is the business case for the tens of thousands of £ it would cost to implement?
 
The Internet has experienced a phenomenal increase of devices accessing the Internet. Because of this increase, IPv4 addresses are running out. The solution is for IPv6 to accommodate this increased demand by providing a much larger address space, along with improved traffic routing and better security.

Some of the major advantages of IPv6 are:
Larger IP address space: IPv6 has 128-bit address space or 4 times more address bits compared to IPv4's 32-bit address space. This large address space will provide enough address space for many decades to come. In real terms, every residential or commercial customer will be able to receive more address space from their ISP than the entire IPv4 address space contains – several billion IP addresses!
Better security: IPv6 includes security in the underlying protocol. For example, encryption of packets (ESP: Encapsulated Security Payload) and authentication of the sender of packets (AH: Authentication Header).
Consideration to real time: To implement better support for real-time traffic (such as videoconference), IPv6 includes a flow label mechanism so routers can more easily recognize where to send information.
Plug and play: IPv6 includes plug and play, which is easier for novice users to connect their machines to the network. Essentially, configuration will happen automatically.
Better optimization: IPv6 takes the best of what made IPv4 successful and gets rid of minor flaws and unused features
 
Speaking personally about a generic query such as this (ie not OcUK specific)

Where is the upside?

100% of people can see it on v4

1-2% of those 100% could see it on v6 too..

Where is the business case for the tens of thousands of £ it would cost to implement?

Tens of thousands of pounds?

You do realise OCUK don't host their own webserver right? Nor do the vast majority of businesses
 
Assuming the "tens of thousands of pounds" was referring to the provider implementing it, then the business case is "to be able to offer IPv6 to customers". I would be concerned by any datacentre / leased line provider not offering IPv6 at this point.
 
The Internet has experienced a phenomenal increase of devices accessing the Internet. Because of this increase, IPv4 addresses are running out. The solution is for IPv6 to accommodate this increased demand by providing a much larger address space, along with improved traffic routing and better security.

Some of the major advantages of IPv6 are:
Larger IP address space: IPv6 has 128-bit address space or 4 times more address bits compared to IPv4's 32-bit address space. This large address space will provide enough address space for many decades to come. In real terms, every residential or commercial customer will be able to receive more address space from their ISP than the entire IPv4 address space contains – several billion IP addresses!
Better security: IPv6 includes security in the underlying protocol. For example, encryption of packets (ESP: Encapsulated Security Payload) and authentication of the sender of packets (AH: Authentication Header).
Consideration to real time: To implement better support for real-time traffic (such as videoconference), IPv6 includes a flow label mechanism so routers can more easily recognize where to send information.
Plug and play: IPv6 includes plug and play, which is easier for novice users to connect their machines to the network. Essentially, configuration will happen automatically.
Better optimization: IPv6 takes the best of what made IPv4 successful and gets rid of minor flaws and unused features

Awesome Copy-Paste? Does not address the question at hand however.

The question is not "What are the benefits of IPv6" These are well publicised and largely undisputed. IPv6 is most certainly the future.

As for better security. I would argue that point. There are a large number of IPv6 based attacks out in the wild currently. Including some VERY effective man in the middle attacks that exploit IPv6, some of which have only been patched on corporate grade appliances. ANYONE who is not actively using IPv6 in a configured and secured environment SHOULD have it turned off. Windows, unfortunately, enables it by default.

The question is "What is the benefit of offering a community forum on IPv6 when, at this time, IPv4 is still very much the norm"

IPv6 will not be an overnight switch, I think we will see IPv4 to 6 translation around for some time. The intrnet is not suddenyl going to be inaccessible by IPv4. Bet it v4 clients OR hosts.
 
Speaking personally about a generic query such as this (ie not OcUK specific)

Where is the upside?

100% of people can see it on v4

1-2% of those 100% could see it on v6 too..

Where is the business case for the tens of thousands of £ it would cost to implement?

A very good question, and the first one any business asks when they start looking at this.

Let's start with the business case for the access provider (BT, Virgin, etc.). It is no longer possible to obtain any meaningful number of IPv4 addresses from RIPE so they are left with what they have or what they can buy from others. Regardless, there is a finite number available and eventually they *will* completely run out. At that point, if they wish to continue selling broadband, they need to do something.

Even IPv6 doesn't completely solve this problem, many websites (Such as OCUK) are IPv4 only so they have to provide access if they want to keep their customers.The answer is some kind of transition technology, typically CGN (Carrier Grade NAT) - exactly the same NAT your home router does however at the huge scale large service providers operate at. This allows SP's to give their customers private IP's and let them share a public address with others. The problem (Aside from numerous technical challenges and UX problems) is that it's expensive. That fancy CGN hardware does not come for free and it's a completely new expense that never existed before.

IPv6 helps here. If they give their customers an IPv6 address as well as CGN, all of the most popular content can be delivered native v6, completely avoiding the nasty, expensive, CGN. That's terabits and terabits of data. Of course, as more of the internet supports IPv6, less and less traffic will have to be CGN'd.

For a website provider, the main driver is going to be UX (User Experience). SP's aren't doing CGN yet, but when they do, it's another hop between the content and the provider. As it's expensive, and most popular content is already native v6, it remains to be seen how oversubscribed the CGN boxes will be.

For webhosts that aren't doing v6, they are going to be in a bit of trouble. It's not easy to get ready for v6 (As you've said, it *will* cost thousands) and it takes time, time they may not have if the websites they host start demanding v6. Amazon AWS as well as many other big hosts offer (Or are close to) v6 now so it's not too bigger stretch to imagine customers migrating in order to continue to provide a great UX.

In terms of OCUK specifically, they won't gain anything immediately by moving (Other than appearing forward thinking) but they will gain in the coming years as the exhaustion of IPv4 starts to bite.

Phew, long post. I kept that as short as possible but it's hard to explain the true drivers without a wider view of the internet.
 
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I don't think any of of the ISPs for my home connections even do IPv6 yet, BT has CGN trials in place IIRC but that causes more problems than it solves IMO.

TBH I think "they" need to go back to the drawing board the - transition to IPv6 seems to have too many stumbling blocks to become useful any time soon.
 
End of the day, IPv6 costs next to nothing for datacentres or those who rent servers, it takes 5 minutes to add IPv6 to the router so that the server can use it. (If it isn't already applied).
Depending what platform the website is hosted, that'll be a 15 minute job tops.

Therefore I do not see the £10000s it'll cost businesses to implement.

A Datacentre does not MERELY enable IPv6 and then job done....

There are many configuration, compatibility, security and testing considerations. Any DataCentre who just enables it and "15 mins, job done!" is not a DataCentre I would want anything to do with.
 
A Datacentre does not MERELY enable IPv6 and then job done....

There are many configuration, compatibility, security and testing considerations. Any DataCentre who just enables it and "15 mins, job done!" is not a DataCentre I would want anything to do with.

Aren't most decent data centres already able to handle IPv6?

I'd be more worried about a data centre who has, as of yet, shown no interest or motivation for IPv6 transition, rather than one who already has some form of implementation and can give you an IPv6 address and port in 15 minutes.

IPv6 is not something you switch over to, it's something you run parallel with IPv4 for now.
 
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A Datacentre does not MERELY enable IPv6 and then job done....

There are many configuration, compatibility, security and testing considerations. Any DataCentre who just enables it and "15 mins, job done!" is not a DataCentre I would want anything to do with.

The post never said enabling IPv6 in the facility was a 15 minute job, simply that the configuration is probably already in place (or at least should be), and it was simply a case of enabling it for the customer.

Would you want anything to do with a datacentre that hadn't started thinking about IPv6 yet?
 
100% of people can see it on v4

1-2% of those 100% could see it on v6 too..

The whole point of IPv6 is that sooner or later some of those 100% of people will not be able to see it on v4.

It's a bit silly not to just get a move on or at least show intention to move on. sooner or later that 100% you quoted will start to diminish. The idea of smooth transition is that you have some sort of IPv6 connectivity before that 100% IPv4 figure starts decreasing, not when it reaches 0% or some other arbitrary figure, even with 99% IPv4 and 1% IPv6 you'll simply get exactly the same thing you're trying to avoid now except it'll just be reversed.

Where is the business case for the tens of thousands of £ it would cost to implement?

What do you mean by this? Are you saying carriers and datacentres etc shouldn't implement IPv6 because it costs money?

What about, you know, the inevitability of v4 and the whole point of v6?
 
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We're just beginning the process of rolling out IPv6 internally across our company, this project is projected to take over 6 months to roll out (approximately 40,000 devices).

The implementation part is a tiny part of that project, the majority of it is planning, testing & validation of all types of devices & there's a large team of people involved in this (which cost's a fair amount)

I can only imagine what ISP/carriers would need to do to implement IPv6 on their networks.
 
I don't think any of of the ISPs for my home connections even do IPv6 yet, BT has CGN trials in place IIRC but that causes more problems than it solves IMO.

TBH I think "they" need to go back to the drawing board the - transition to IPv6 seems to have too many stumbling blocks to become useful any time soon.

There are a couple out there that do offer ipv6 with their xDSL connections.
 
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