OEM Windows licence goes with the PC right? but what about this...

Raymond Lin · 21 Apr 2006 at 03:15

Take my pc for example, here is the history of it

Summer 2002 - Brought pre-built from a online company with XP installed.
Time goes by - I upgraded a few things, double ram, swapped HD, taken out TV card, installed NIC.
Summer 2004 - The ASUS mobo was being weird, an error stopping me reinstall windows, sent it back to the company to get it fixed, while there i ask to upgrade the PC. Went from a AMD 2200+ to Intel P4 3.2Ghz set up, new mobo, new CPU, New SATA HD, New faster DDR RAM.
Summer 2005 - over the various months I've changed the drives to DVD-RWs, changed the Graphic card the from ATI9700pro to X800XTPE, PSU is now a Hiper 580.

Only original parts from 2002 spec

Case
Floppy Drive
Sound Card

I even thought about getting a new case and do a transplant as this case is pretty loud. No one can stop me doing that and it won't require any form of reinstallation. Now, does the OEM licence follow the sound card or the Floppy disc drive?

(doubtful its either) Since that is basically the only hardware left from 2002.

The case at the moment still have the OEM sticker from 2002, lets say i keep the case in the loft or something, whats stopping me using it to reinsall windows when i reformat in a different case when i do the transplant? Would it be illegal?

Zefan · 21 Apr 2006 at 03:16

IIRC it follows whichever PC you want it to, as long as it's only one. It doesn't "Follow parts about" as such, unless you decide it will.

Andy100 · 21 Apr 2006 at 03:48

On a related note! (hopefully without hijacking the thread).

I bought an HP pc (it was a bargain) that has an oem license for Windows MCE. Instead of giving me a disk with it on they've partitioned a section of my HD as a system recovery drive. However if I use this it'll reinstall all the HP carp I've worked so hard to remove.

Would downloading a regular copy of MCE off the internet and using my oem license key work?

tmileson · 21 Apr 2006 at 10:50

From the MS licensing site

“An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a “new personal computer” to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.”

The reason Microsoft gave for this term is that “Microsoft needed to have one base component “left standing” that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the “heart and soul” of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created.”

From the Microsoft License FAQ, question 11:

Q. Rather than purchase completely new PCs, my organization performs in-place upgrades to the hardware on many of our computers. We often times only replace the motherboard, processor, and memory. Since the COA is still on the case and the OS is still installed on the hard drive, this computer is still licensed, right?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer." Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from one computer to another. Therefore, if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required.

So in theory you've been running an unlicensed version of Xp since Summer 2004.

The retail version of XP does not have this restriction, however the OEM version is substantialy cheaper to refelct the limitations.

PinkPig · 21 Apr 2006 at 11:08

tmileson said:
So in theory you've been running an unlicensed version of Xp since Summer 2004.

A couple of things to bear in mind.

1) It was the company he sent it to's responsibility to add the price of a new copy to his upgrade and install it then. For all he knows they might have done. (Actually, there is absolutely no chance that they did, but that's not really the point)

2) Microsoft's "motherboard" policy has only really appeared in the last six months or so, before that I don't think they officially spelt out that that's the way it should be (it was a vague "same computer" thing), and the advice to computer manufacturers to require a new OEM copy if a motherboard is upgradedd was given for the first time then.

3) The OP says that the motherboard was faulty at the time of the replacement, so in Microsoft's own words he doesn't need a new license anyway.

4) Do we really know if the "new motherboard" thing would ever be legally enforceable? It's Microsoft's interpretation of a "new computer" wording, unless I'm mistaken.

tmileson · 21 Apr 2006 at 11:37

You just have to be sensible...

Clearly a PC which changed everything, for example, except the case and a floppy drive, going from a Pentium 66 128mb to a AMD x2 4800 2Gb etc is not the same PC.

Smaller changes may not be quite so obvious but I think most people would accept that a "P4 3.2Ghz set up, different mobo, new CPU, New SATA HD, New faster DDR RAM, changed DVD-RWs, changed the Graphic card and PSU" is not the same PC as the original AMD 2200+ based PC.

The OP says the only original bits left are

Case
Floppy Drive
Sound Card

Lets be honest, you'd have a hard time convincing any sensible person that was the same PC

SiriusB · 21 Apr 2006 at 12:40

"I had the same brush for 15 years. It's only had 7 new heads and 3 new handles."

- Trigger

SiriusB

Raymond Lin · 21 Apr 2006 at 15:30

tmileson said:
If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.”

...

So in theory you've been running an unlicensed version of Xp since Summer 2004.

The mobo was being weird, I tried reinstalling windows as it kept crashing in the months before, it would crash when i am not even touching it while dle. But somehow at reinstallation it stops half way through, sometimes a NTLD error, i've tried 3 different HDs, different IDE cables, swapping ram around. I came to the conclusion it is the mobo, I even sold the RAM and CPU later and they are working fine. But i still have the mobo in its box in my room.

JUMPURS · 21 Apr 2006 at 16:28

SiriusB said:
"I had the same brush for 15 years. It's only had 7 new heads and 3 new handles."

- Trigger

SiriusB

lol

If you had look at it honestly it is not the same PC, just cos its in the same case doesnt mean its the same PC.
I mean if you took out the 1.2 engine in a wee clio and slapped in a monster 3l V8 engine ripped out the interior replaced with top of the line stuff, you honestly cant tell the dvla and insurance thats its the same car now can you??
I mean even with the mobo repleacement you didnt even stick to CPU manufacturers, so dude its not valid.
If you try to re-register it with MS and they tell you to bolt, you cant argue, but otherwise does it matter to you?

Raymond Lin · 21 Apr 2006 at 16:35

JUMPURS said:
lol

If you had look at it honestly it is not the same PC, just cos its in the same case doesnt mean its the same PC.
I mean if you took out the 1.2 engine in a wee clio and slapped in a monster 3l V8 engine ripped out the interior replaced with top of the line stuff, you honestly cant tell the dvla and insurance thats its the same car now can you??
I mean even with the mobo repleacement you didnt even stick to CPU manufacturers, so dude its not valid.
If you try to re-register it with MS and they tell you to bolt, you cant argue, but otherwise does it matter to you?

I realise it is not the same PC as i got it at the start, I am not arguing that at all, I am asking would it be legit. The changes was made by the flauty motherboard. Since it was getting changed who would want the same spec as before? So i ask them to update it, as for the same CPU manufacturer, is that really the point? The fact is that this PC is registered, i can get updates just like my Dell laptop can.

PinkPig · 21 Apr 2006 at 16:53

People who are saying "it's obviously not really the same PC" are rather missing the point, it's a legal question, not an ethical one.

My opinion is that you're fine. Microsoft say that the only change that represents a "new computer" is the motherboard - you replaced the motherboard because it was faulty. Would you even have been able to get the same model if you wanted to? No reason to think you could have done, and no way of telling now.

I don't think you're breaking the law.

Slam62 · 21 Apr 2006 at 17:06

Well the op is not breaking the law, if anyone did the supplier did.

By the way, terms and conditions in the small print are not enforceable by law if they are unreasonable, this goes for any product or service. Companies do not write the consumer law and do not decide consumer rights, untill the condition is tested in a uk court we have no way of knowing whether it is legally enforceable or not. As MS have never, as far as i am aware tried to enforce this, then one must think they have their doubts.

If you look at the consumer rights thread in gd, you will see that large companies often try it on with no true legal baiss.

tmileson · 21 Apr 2006 at 20:08

This is just getting silly now.... Weasal words and internet lawyers

It's plain the PC bares no resemblance to the one purchased with the license. The Microsoft condition is that for the sake of being reasonable to people who want to upgrade they will call the final deciding factor the motherboard. Personally i think this shows good will in as much as they are prepared to allow people to upgrade just about anything in the PC.

Keep in mind this is the OEM version of the OS designed for the PC it was shipped with and is discounted appropriately. We've had this discussion before, there is a version of XP available for people that want to change machines with no problem.

It's non transferable, just like your Gym, club , whatever membership. You wouldn't give your gym membership to your brother and then expect him to get into some kind of internet argument that genetically he's 90% the same person as you so should be let in...

Bottom line? Sure if you want to go for it try it, but you asked a simple question and according to the EULA it's unlikely at best that the PC you have now is the same PC. If you had of changed the motherboard for another AMD board compatable with the processor you had at the time then maybe yes, even if the M/B was a different manufacturer. You would have take "reasonable" steps to comply with the EULA.

The change to a totaly different type of motherboard and all of the other upgrades changes that.

You asked and you have the official MS answer. You're unlikely to ever end up in court over it, up to you if you feel comfortable with ignoring the answer or trying to work your way round it or not.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people that believe it's OK to steal software. /sigh

Trigger · 21 Apr 2006 at 20:23

SiriusB said:
"I had the same brush for 15 years. It's only had 7 new heads and 3 new handles."

- Trigger

You called?

Oh, and it's actually 17 new heads and 14 new handles

Slam62 · 21 Apr 2006 at 21:02

tmileson said:
This is just getting silly now.... Weasal words and internet law......... believe it's OK to steal software. /sigh

Are you saying i'm incorrect then..... cos you're wrong, i am correct.

Also i dont think that paying for software and using it is stealing, i think the general assumption is that if you've paid for a legal licensed copy then you havent stolen it, as i said, any companies terms and conditions are illegal if shown to be unreasonable in court.

As you said microsoft will not take an individual to court so we will never know.

What gets me is that its microsofts policy to let people they know have pirate copies still get the essential security udates etc, as someone who pays for properly licensed copies, i find this shocking, the arguement is that the users didnt realise they were buying a pirate copy.

Please dont say the op is stealing, thats just plain rude, he has just followed the pc suppliers guidence and hence is completely innocent

Raymond Lin · 21 Apr 2006 at 21:14

tmileson said:
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people that believe it's OK to steal software. /sigh

Stealing ? I paid for that licence, and I only have 1 PC using that licence. Granted it is NOT the same PC it was when it started, it wouldn't have been as that old mobo broke. So are you saying if i had replaced it with another mobo with the same model it would've been alright? Even thou it is NOT the same mobo, as the original one is sitting in my room. What difference does it make if i went over to Intel from AMD, how would changing a chipset make any difference. I had a broken PC, did what i did to fix it. It was REASONABLE to change the motherboard as the standard spec at the time of replacement was 3Ghz speed, it was also REASONABLE to use a Intel Chip for a Intel motherboard, it was also REASONABLE to get better Ram as it sync with the motherboard better to utlise its Dual Channel performance. The DVDRW/PSU changes adside is irrelevant.

From your own words "If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required."

I say crashing while idle is a defect.

p.s. I did not reintall windows, the company did when they replaced the parts. So they activated it from microsoft at their workshop before it was sent back to me.

Slam62 · 21 Apr 2006 at 21:19

SiriusB said:
"I had the same brush for 15 years. It's only had 7 new heads and 3 new handles."

- Trigger

SiriusB

yes but i bet you've still got the bistles

you must love that brush

tmileson · 21 Apr 2006 at 22:01

Raymond Lin said:
Granted it is NOT the same PC it was when it started,

You've had the details from Microsoft, you cannot transfer the license to another PC. You say yourself it's not the same PC. QED

Wrap it up any way you like, i'm not going to argue with you. If you didn't want an factual answer then why ask the question?

Raymond Lin · 21 Apr 2006 at 22:05

tmileson said:
You've had the details from Microsoft, you cannot transfer the license to another PC. You say yourself it's not the same PC. QED

Wrap it up any way you like, i'm not going to argue with you. If you didn't want an factual answer then why ask the question?

But you have answered my question too, it was a defect mobo, so it is legit.

tmileson · 21 Apr 2006 at 22:17

Slam62 said:
I think the general assumption is that if you've paid for a legal licensed copy then you havent stolen it.

Not if you break the terms of the license. If you want to be able to transfer the license there's a perfectly good version you can purchase that allows that. If you buy the cheap seats at a football match for £20 you can't go take the royal box seats that should be £50 on the grounds that you've bought a ticket to see the match. Nor indeed can you use the same tickets for the next match on the grounds that most of the match is the same, it;s just the away team that's changed!!

Slam62 said:
as i said, any companies terms and conditions are illegal if shown to be unreasonable in court.

Which they have not been. You really are making it up as you go along aren't you.

Slam62 said:
Please dont say the op is stealing, thats just plain rude, he has just followed the pc suppliers guidence and hence is completely innocent

Because ignorance of the law is a valid defence... Oops, no it isn't...

Anyway I didn't say he is, I just said I fail to see why people think stealing software is OK. If you use something you don't have a legal right to use and thereby deprive the producers of their rightfull recompense it's stealing. If the cap fits... If not there's nothing to worry about..

Software pirates don't like that description, they like to paint a picture of it being a rebel scoring one for the common man against evil empire etc. Microsoft don't need the money, they're evil, etc. etc. yada, yada... Doesn't change the facts.

The funny thing is the OP started off as a honest user asking a simple question. So maybe he didn't realise, it's just one of those things and nothing malicious so fine, no problem. Grab an appropriate licence and sleep well at night knowing you've been honest and done the right thing if you're concerned.

Don't ask for an answer and then argue that the rules don't apply to you if you get an answer you don't like the sound of... There's no need to justify it to me or anyone here, the answer was posted, it's up to the OP to decide if he's happy or not

Anyway, so about these bristles... Does it matter that they're now horse hair rather than nylon on my favourite brush?