*** Official Kinect Thread ***

[Demon]

What is Kinect?

Magic Disguised as Technology

With Kinect for Xbox 360, you are the controller. Easy to use and instantly fun, Kinect gets your whole body in the game. Imagine controlling movies and music with the wave of a hand or the sound of your voice. With Kinect, technology evaporates, letting the natural magic in all of us shine. And the best part is Kinect works with every Xbox 360.

Motion Sensor

Kinect uses a motion sensor that tracks your entire body. So when you play, it’s not only about your hands and wrists. It’s about all of you. Arms, legs, knees, waist, hips and so on.

Skeletal Tracking

As you play, Kinect creates a digital skeleton of you based on depth data. So when you move left or right or jump around, the sensor will capture it and put you in the game.

Facial Recognition

Kinect ID remembers who you are by collecting physical data that’s stored in your profile. So when you want to play again, Kinect will know it’s you, making it easy to jump in whenever you want.

Voice Recognition

Kinect uses four strategically placed microphones within the sensor to recognize and separate your voice from the other noises in the room, so you can control movies and more with your voice.


GAMES FOR EVERYONE*
Kinect Sports | Kinect Adventures | Kinect Joyride | Dance Central | Your Shape:Fitness Evolved | Kinectimals | Motion Sports | The Biggest Loser | Fighters Uncaged | Game Party in Motion | Zumba Fitness | DECA Sports Freedom | EA Active 2 | Sonic Free Riders | Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

* When they say everyone, I think we all know it's not quite for everyone

 

[Demon]

People are starting to get theirs delivered today, so thought it'd be nice to have somewhere to laugh/cry/share your opinions of what is a quite casual and slightly different experience.

I'm looking forward to giving it a go, but it's main purpose is to replace the Wii in our house, which has a very casual gamer slant to it..

 

[Demon]

Which shops, the purple one with four letters?? Can't track my order so if anyone gets their one today would be interested to know

My Brother had his delivered this morning, he's trying it out before the kids get home from school.. My local indy was selling them today, and I've had a text from the missus to say if I'm sad enough I can pick hers up midnight for her from a midnight launch (If it was a PS4/Xbox720/Wii HD I'd do it, but for this.. no way)

 

[Demon]

Where did he get his order from?

It's a 250Gb bundle, from the purple shirt brigade, he went over to the depot to collect it as it wasn't due out for delivery today (He uses them with work a lot, so knows the guys down there)..

I also popped into my local indy lunchtime, and 2 people where walking out with them, but he's quite a good bloke, as long as he knows you, he normally allows them out the day before to combat all the online places, I was half tempted to get one, but I'm just not that hyped and he was charging full price for games etc..

I'm amazed people's pre-orders are not here a day early, but reading around I don't see a swathe of people saying theirs has arrived early..

 

[Demon]

This is only for able bodied white people.

I've also heard it struggles to detect the person if they have incorrect clothing too,


It's only for able bodied, white, naked people!!!

 

[Demon]

<snip>Good Feedback, lucky sod getting one for free!</snip>
Games:
Kinect Adventure - I personally enjoy it, good fun.
Kinect Sports - It's incredible fun, but not really my cup of tea.
Joyride - LOVE IT!!! Great fun and definately can't way to have some MP action with this.

I am not sure about Joyride, my 4 year old loves driving games, as do I, so was thinking about this, but the reviews are abysmal from gaming sites.. namely that it's too hard to control etc, but a few people who have actually played it now say it's pretty OK..

I've got Kinect Sports/Kinectimals coming anyway, not sure whether I should get Joyride, is it comparable to Mario Kart/Excite Truck on the Wii?

 

[Demon]

I've just taken all the games back, as I found out Supermarkets and Retail 'catalogue' stores are doing the games at more reasonable prices, e.g. Joyride £26.24..
But for Xmas pressies and immediate use, the order's so far are

Kinect Sports
Kinectimals (For my daughter for Xmas)
Joyride (For my son for Xmas)
Your shape (For the missus)
Kinect Adventures.

That's quite a bag of games really, and only just negated by the sale of the Wii.. I may get Dance Central if there is a demo out to try, it's not my thing, but if the kids/missus like it, that's another christmas pressie sorted!

 

[Demon]

I let the kids/missus loose on it last night, and overall it's about what I expected, which is that it's not too bad at all...

Kinect Adventures - Not a bad bundle in family 'game', although it's a little lacking in depth, I love the fact that people can just jump in alongside and it seamlessly handles this, it'll be great for parties etc..
Kinect Sports - My daughter loved it (6), my son was struggling with it a little (4), although he managed to get 4 points against the AI in table tennis and he managed the bowling, which allowed him to just throw the ball, making it 'work' for him much better then having to use an exact bowling motion. My only comment would be for me and my dodgy back, I actually would have preferred more 'gentle' games then running and perhaps a mini-golf clone ala Wii Sports..

Your Shape Fitness Evolved - This was for the missus, and so just chucked her on it.. I have to say Kinect is really suited to this genre, you really have to match your trainers actions very closely, it even monitors how high you are raising your arms/knees etc and won't count half assed moves etc.

Lag
It's probably worth mentioning that Lag is a weird thing, if you bring up the Kinect Tuner in-game, you get a nice RGB image with your basic skeleton showing, using that, and setting the TV to 'game' mode (minimal image lag), you can see two things
1. There is noticeable lag - if you fling your arm out and back, it does appear to lag a little, doing the arm waggling up and down, you'd swear there was 300ms+ of lag.
2. There is very little lag - if you move your arms out and back in, clapping your hands every iteration, you do notice that the sound of your clap, and the moment the skeleton shows your arms meeting, it's pretty much spot on, maybe 150ms lag at worse.
I think it's true (Digital Foundry Article) that although even 150ms of lag would be deemed acceptable for an FPS game, the delay between brain thinking it, and your arms/legs moving to the desired position is inherently laggy, and the visual feedback makes this much more evident. This isn't excusing it, because I feel that 'twitch' gaming on Kinect is just not possible, and obviously developers won't do it, but it is more then sufficient for most motion based activities, and can be largely guarded against, it doesn't actually detract from the experience. But it does require a leap of faith and acceptance that lag will be noticeable at times, and it's partly Kinect, partly your own body being a bit slow.

Voice Control
It just works, it's very accurate etc, and no real complaints, other then design of Kinect Hub and 1 foible, which is, you can say "Xbox - Open Tray" if no game is in it, and it ejects the disk tray, and you can even say "Xbox - Close Tray" and it works fine. However if a game is already in, it doesn't respond to "Xbox - Open Tray" as this is no longer a valid command, which is silly. It's not a big deal, but when you are trying to control the whole thing seamlessly with voice, it kind of annoys you.

Space requirements
Good and bad, If space is a little limited, then you are probably going to have to work at placement. The issue for most people is, putting it infront of their TV gives you the worst space requirements, you can see Kinect Angle right up as it can't naturally see your feet/head with it's field of view, and I literally needed 6 foot before I was in the '2 player good' zone that Kinect Adventures shows you.
However, since my TV is in a corner, there is lots of room behind it to the wall, so I messed around holding it up at 6ft above and behind the TV, in the corner (Could put a small corner shelf up), and got the missus to see what effect it had. With careful placement of the TV as far back as it would go, and setting Kinect at about 6'0, it seems happy to then use the smaller space between TV and Settee for 2 players.
Even just a TV Mount and setting it at about 4.5' seems to reduce the space required.. As it stood, with Kinect in the default 'in front of the TV' positio, we just angled the TV/Kinect slightly and stood as we did for two player Wii gaming, more lengthways into the room.
I will probably put a small shelf up in the corner, and move the TV as far back as I can (46", so it's still a good 1.5' off the room corner), and I think I can get it to work in the room in the smaller widthways manner, which will be better for when games come out that work seated.

Overall
I'd say it hits the mark, it's great casual family fun, easily on par with the Wii in a lot of respects, but some nicer HD stuff, with the added element that you really do get more of a 'connection' and more immersion when your character is mimicking you 1:1, a solid 7/10 for us.. If it was just me, well I'm not into 'motion gaming' in a big way, I'd probably not bother at all, but that's not to say that it doesn't have it's place..

Surprising moments
- Preferering Table Tennis on Kinect Sports to Sports Champions with Move. I used to play table tennis when younger, and had come back from a family holiday where we played table tennis most days with all the kids, so when I got Move, I was quite hyped for it, but it never 'clicked', it felt clumsy and although the bat orientation/control is hyper accurate, the body movement and positioning is at odds, I thought it was just me, but when I watched the Gadget show where they had a Top table tennis player Vs one of the presenters, the presenter won, it was clear that SC Table Tennis is falling down in giving a real life presentation of the game. The Kinect Sports affair has much less accuracy, but captures the positional aspect much better, you feel like you are really stood by the table, and have a 1:1 correlation to your position and arms which allows a nice 'flow' and mirrors the real world experience quite well. Although it could do with more accuracy for the bat, it's like Wii Sports Tennis, you can still smash/lob/spin the ball with exaggerated movements and that makes it an overall much better experience for me.
- Seeing my 4 year old son have a high success rate with Bowling. He is just about OK on the Wii, but the amount of times he mistimes releasing the B button on Wii Sports bowling and not getting the right motion to get the game to start the swing is quite frustrating at times, in Kinect Sport Bowling, he was able to bowl a few using a normal bowling gesture, but he was also able to just throw the ball in numerous ways that was quite comical and also nice to see him laughing when he got a strike from an overarm throw..

 

[Demon]

Nice review Demon
Just to kinda give a reason to this though:
It does make sense if you think about it. The only probably reason why you'd open a tray (with a disc) in, is to swap discs and you'd be physically near the console to do this - so asking Kinect to open the tray (if you're not at the console) is a moot command really.

For sure, I agree it makes little sense, but it does give the option when no-game is in the tray, it's just a small consistency thing, and my Daughter was literally amazed when I immediately said "Xbox-open tray" when I first went into Kinect Hub, I didn't even think it'd work, but it just did.. that was a 'wow' moment for such a stupid thing..

As for it coming in the pack. Can't be 100% certain, mine did but I've seen a few sites say some do, some don't and it's 'like' the HDD transfer kit where you may need to ask for it. Honestly can't answer that bit 100%

Yes, the normal £129 Kinect comes with a Power Adapter and everything you need for an 'old' 360 to work with Kinect, no problems what so-ever.

 

[Demon]

I have heard a Rumor that Kinect will be Dropped to £79.99 after xmas. Anyone else heard this..?

I follow just about all gaming forums/sites, and there are no such rumours, and this one is so ludicrous that you just have to assume it's some jaded delusional kinect hater being really silly, because the only reason you'd expect an almost immediate halving in price is if something was a complete Bomba..

And lo-and behold wheren't you telling us how you've experienced kinect and think the technology is the crappest thing every inflicted on mankind in the pre-order thread? and here you are with a 'rumour' that would imply kinect bombing to depths never seen since 20,000 leagues under the sea? Co-incidence*?




* - A bit of ribbing may be implied in the above btw...

Hey, I'd love it if it had started out at £75.. I'd imagine they'd sell a boatload more, but I have a feeling they'll pretty much sell what they have made by Christmas, with ease, and unforunately, they seem to be following approximate legitimate market pricing, if you look at high street prices (where 'casual' people tend to spend their money)
Wii = £160 (Only 1 Wii Mote, no decent Fitness peripheral)
Wii + Wii Fit = £225 (Only 1 Wii mote)
PS3 + Move = £289 (Only get 1 wand, no Navi, no Games)
360 + Kinect = £250/£300 (Seemingly all you ever need to spend (LOL))

 

[Demon]

Apparently it doesn't cost much to make.. $56
http://kotaku.com/5688040/report-kinect-only-cost-56-to-make

That's a little lower then I thought it would be..

$56 doesn't cover the R&D/Assembly/Packaging/Shipping/Marketing/Support costs, but they still have to be making a healthy profit on it..

I'm sure some people will see $56 and £129.99 and instantly think M$, but you need to look at games, they cost $1-$2 to make a DVD/Case, and they charge us £40+ (RRP)...

 

[Demon]

ok so I can trade a bit of quality for the space I have I guess - plenty of room side to side just depth issue at home. didnt want to get it home and find it just doesnt work at all with the space we have

another quickie - does the kinect come with anything bar a stand to sit on?

It's just a small flat base that's part of the sensor, you can buy a 'wall mount' for it, about £20 I believe..

Space wise, for 2 players you really need 8ft+ from the sensor to get right to the back of the play space in theory, 6-7ft you can probably get in the front half of the 'best' section in Adventures, but if you needed to move back for some reason, you'd probably run out of room.

I've now mounted mine on a shelf up/behind the TV (It's in a corner), and it seems to work better in my space then when I had it lower down (2ft) in front of the TV..

 

[Demon]

I think it will be gathering dust by next spring/summer. Like the Wii the novelty soon wears off the active/motion games. Luckily the wii has titles like mario bros, mario kart, goldeneye, mario galaxy etc that hold it up.

Not quite sure I am understanding the point, but I guess the 360 also has a motherload of quality non-activity games you can play if/when the Kinect novelty wears off? Granted the games use a normal controller, but we are talking about getting fed up of motion games here?

 

[Demon]

Hmm i have had this since yesterday and i,m getting a bit bored of it now. The fitness game is ok but nothing special. I lol,d when it asked for my weight.. Wii fit could have told me.... Will give it a couple more days but think i,m going to sell it or return it as i can see it being like the Wii and not used after a month or so...

As if we didn't see that coming

I managed to have a go on Kinnect today... It was as crap as i expected, it was more fun watching the rep trying his hardest to show how wonderfull it was when it was obviously not.......

Just return it under DSA, at the end of the day, like all motion stuff, it's obviously going to be more a distraction then a primary gaming method for hardcore users.. Our family still played on the Wii, so this was an easy purchase really, just a different/refreshing spin on it really.. If it had just been me, I'd not have bothered getting Kinect..

And yeah, obviously it can't tell your weight like a Wii Fit, but then a Wii-Fit can't tell your height or whether you are doing lunges correctly

 

[Demon]

Has anyone had to mount their Kinect in the corner of their room so they can make use of the playing space? If so how did you mount it? If you used a shelf, what size did you use?
thanks

Our TVs is in a corner anyway, so I just bought a small rounded corner pine shelf from b&q for under £5, and it works perfectly, mounted at 6ft high.

 

[Demon]

Holy cak..

MS appear to have sold (to retail) 8 Million Units in 60 days, and well over the 5 million forecast sold through to the customer, backed up with the quote from Greenberg.

aarongreenberg @therealcliffyb We have no channel inventory, so essentially the same #....every Kinect we make we sell.

Personally, that's way more then I'd ever suspect, but since coming back to work, it's amazing how many people have bought one over christmas, even people that you really wouldn't expect to.

I don't want it to do too well, it really doesn't want to start detracting from core game resource..

 

[Demon]

Even funnier was that Sony said that they were offered the Kinect technology and rejected it as it was too flakey and that the camera was too low rez 320 x 240 well it appears that, as usual, Sony are full of it, as it has been disclosed by MS that the Kinect camera is actually capable of of 4x the current resolution 640 x 480 but was crippled by MS so that it didnt hog too much bandwidth on the USB bus. Sony must have been looking at some other technology!!

The tech was offered to Nintendo
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/nintendo-‘turned-down’-natal-tech

Sony dabbled with the idea of it, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/why-sony-passed-on-natal-tech

I don't think Sony where offered it, they just (as usual) have a different outlook on these things, and went with 'on-paper bigger numbers' something Sony seem to like doing..

 

[Demon]

Have you played one yet, I thought the same but it simply exists in Parrellel, effectively its a better version of the Wii integrated with the Xbox.

The games offer something that a control never can, just like a control offers something the Kinect can't.

I was playing table tennis last night, I almost forgot I was playing a game. I was moving around the lounge as if I was at a real table.

I've had one since launch, Its replaced the Wii in our front room, and the kids love it! I do have fun on it as well, I totally get how good the experience can be, but I wouldn't want MS to shift too much resource into kinect only games if that resource would normally be doing AAA first party titles.

 

[Demon]

Sorry but I don't believe you. What height was the sensor?

Perhaps its better with the sensor lower? Either way that won't work for many, since a lot of IR sensors blocked by the kinect, at that position.

Not an expert on optics to know whats involved, but one would have thought, they would have made this contraption to have a play area of around 5-8 ft and not 8-12 ft. Which immediately eliminates most homes, or if not, then involves the moving of furniture, since many homes do not have an open space of 12ft between the TV and the sofa that is empty.

I'd phone MS, I'm sure I read about some people having the same issues as you, and it turned out to be faulty units, I've measured mine, at 8ft, I'm right at the back of Kinect ID area, and easily in the 'ideal' section for Kinect Adventures, mine is mounted at about 6ft on a shelf behind the TV.