** Official WoW Catalysm Alpha/Beta Thread **

yashiro said:
There's still loads of pallies. For a short time in beta Holy and Prot were terrible. As usual Blizzard then overbuffed them to make it easier for the people that play this class.
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Paladins have kinda had a wierd history really. They changed a lot during the Beta and the earlier release months, and basically became relegated to clerics/priests-in-cloth that weren't as good as the real thing, tanking and DPS they were pretty damned poor at, they then got altered and became decent healers during the end of vanilla, but only really healers, then Blizz 'fixed' tanking first during TBC, which inevitable caused issues as most people by then didnt really want Paladins DPSing or tanking, as traditionally they'd sucked and it caused some issues within pre-established guilds as some of the paladins they had respecced from healer to non-healer, and then played around with the actual moves and layouts for a while...

Hell I remember the days before Hammer of Wrath existed, not a pretty time for most pallies in PvP, as so many of the humour videos from vanilla attested...it really was not where you wanted to be, unless you enjoyed bubbling, a few heals and running around.

Almost makes me wonder how many ORIGINAL paladin players are left, the class has changed that much since the early days, it really has been a strange few years in terms of 'what does my class do and how does it do it'. I dont think many classes have changed anywhere near as much, with the possible exception of Druid. Nowadays (or at least when I mostly quit), at least Pallies are pretty viable regardless of what you want to be.

There have always been tons of pallies though, I remember Molten Core runs with *12* Pallies at once :D
 
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Alexrose1uk said:
Almost makes me wonder how many ORIGINAL paladin players are left, the class has changed that much since the early days.
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*shrug*

Been playing Paladins since EU release, and yep we've changed a whole bunch. I think every class has gone through a period of being non-viable except perhaps warriors (though I recall very early issues with rage generation) and in terms of class development this game is leaps and bounds better than it ever has been.

--

In other news, Cataclysm is now available to pre-order direct from Blizzard on http://eu.battle.net/en/info/presale. It allows you to pre-load Cataclysm content before the day of release, but that's about it. Also, no Collections Edition via this method.

Cost: £29.99, taken out on day you pre-order.

*laughs*
 
Stripes said:
*shrug*

Been playing Paladins since EU release
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Same, I just wonder how many there really are, I remember a hell of a lot of the old 'crowd' I used to know at the time re-rolling in the end. I think I was just more stubborn, and my character still is, and always probably will be, a pally healer. [Just no-one ever design an armor as silly as bananabringer for us again. Judgment is still the best-looking set we ever got]

Can't remember which realm my first character was on, made a low level pally but abandoned the realm/character and remade on Hellscream when several of my friends made a guild there during the second wave of server openings. :)

Crazy to think that was over 5 years ago now; hell that guild is still going which is something of an eye-opener.
 
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Tute said:
Are you being serious? I can't imagine you are.
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Are you being serious? Jesus H Christ. Ok let's just put my hands up and say Blizzard does not listen to their fans at all and that all the PTRs and testing were just a side-distraction...

Honestly, the whole 'Blizzard don't listen/Playerbase sucks/game sucks' slant by some of the bitter players are getting really tired and boring. Why don't you go back to Everquest? That's more like your kind of game.
 
Blizzard does totally pull the rug out from under the game way too often, why constantly change the classes? Paladin has actually been a different class around 4 times now.

Balance tweaks are done arbitrarily non stop, you wouldn't put up with it in any other kind of game.
 
Tute said:
Are you being serious? I can't imagine you are.
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If he isn't, I am ;)

My only significant criticism of Wrath was that the difficulty of normal 10 and 25 modes should have been higher. As far as I'm concerned everything else was an improvement on Vanilla.

Blizzard does totally pull the rug out from under the game way too often, why constantly change the classes? Paladin has actually been a different class around 4 times now.
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I'm not sure they've constantly pulled the rug out from under the classes, developments have very much been a gradual iterative process. As for Paladins particularly, individual talent and/or skill changes can be debated till the cows come home but the Wrath Paladin was a VASTLY better model than both TBC and Vanilla. The jury is still out with 'Clysm changes but it's still a much more diverse toolset than previous designs.
 
Strife212 said:
Balance tweaks are done arbitrarily non stop, you wouldn't put up with it in any other kind of game.
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Its because they HAVE to be done. Even with private and PTR testing its extremely difficult to test every aspect of the game.

PvP is an absolute nightmare to balance.
 
KNiVES said:
Are you being serious? Jesus H Christ. Ok let's just put my hands up and say Blizzard does not listen to their fans at all and that all the PTRs and testing were just a side-distraction...

Honestly, the whole 'Blizzard don't listen/Playerbase sucks/game sucks' slant by some of the bitter players are getting really tired and boring. Why don't you go back to Everquest? That's more like your kind of game.
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That's not really what I was implying at all, but thanks for the "toys out of pram" moment. :)

I can't remember who it was who said that "the greatest argument about democracy is a conversation with an average person" but it certainly applies to WoW. Those who have the time to go on the forums and whine generally don't have the best ideas on how to improve the game.

I'll happily admit that WoW is a good game, but it's not a patch on the unmolested example they put out years ago.

And i've never played EQ.
 
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Tute said:
That's not really what I was implying at all, but thanks for the "toys out of pram" moment. :)

I can't remember who it was who said that "the greatest argument about democracy is a conversation with an average person" but it certainly applies to WoW. Those who have the time to go on the forums and whine generally don't have the best ideas on how to improve the game.

I'll happily admit that WoW is a good game, but it's not a patch on the unmolested example they put out years ago.

And i've never played EQ.
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How could I possibly find any alternative implication from the fact you were blatantly making the view that the players' input contributed to the current design of the game were wrong?

You're wrong on every single count so far. Subjective obviously, but if you really think that vanilla WoW was the best state the game has ever been in... then... well... I'm not going to argue any further.
 
KNiVES said:
How could I possibly find any alternative implication from the fact you were blatantly making the view that the players' input contributed to the current design of the game were wrong?

You're wrong on every single count so far. Subjective obviously, but if you really think that vanilla WoW was the best state the game has ever been in... then... well... I'm not going to argue any further.
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Well you were the one who said that WoW is a hundred times better due to players and their input.

I can't possibly see how this would be the case when the game has been nothing but watered down to cater for a community who do nothing but whinge on forums all day long because the next person has better kit than they do.

Blizzard always used to consider players' suggestions carefully and evaluate their impact on the game before deciding on if they should be implemented or not. Now it's a case of doing what the community says, no matter what the effect on the game.

As for the game itself, well any sense of achievement has been well and truly removed from it. Back in vanilla it used to take time, effort, and teamwork to complete a raid. Now? Forget any of that, just PuG yourself ten people and go claim your reward. They may as well have an NPC in a city handing the Tier sets out to people.

I appreciate that certain people wanted endgame to be accessible, but rather than butchering the challenge from the game, Blizzard should have offered them an alternative.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion.
 
While I agree the majority of the game is now easier than it used to be, there are still certain things you can do that give a similar 'sense of achievement' that there once was.

World (and Realm :p) first kills for example, Gladiator/Rank 1 titles etc. If you think you are good enough and want an actual challenge, where you have to learn (granted, easier) fights at speed, go and join a top guild, you might enjoy yourself!
 
Tute said:
I appreciate that certain people wanted endgame to be accessible, but rather than butchering the challenge from the game, Blizzard should have offered them an alternative.
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What Alertnative do you give them then ? Why should casual players be punished for well not having as much free time compared to a hardcore raider.

End of the day they have put the alternatives in, they have made raids easier so the casual player can PuG it and get to see the end game content which is great for them. For the more Hardcore players they have given Hard modes, extra loot, special mounts and achievements to earn.

I just don't see why blizzard should revert back to the old vanilla ways of "oh lets design all this cool content that only 10% of the wows subbys will actually get to see and enjoy" Meanwhile lets give casuals er er er fishing ???
 
They have made the game better, and as said before its getting more challenging constantly. Players are just stepping up there playing level.

WOTLK was a good expansion. BUT blizzard didn't create enough content and left it too long. Like we couldhave done wiht a SWP style instance 6monhts ago.

Blizzard constantly change the charactors just to keep things level. I think with the whole world changes, they decided to change Hunter to Focus, Pala to holy power all in 1. As it was something they have wanted to do since beta but never could.
 
I think I am mostly looking forward to the plants V zombies game in wow :p

But I dunno what im looking forward to really I just think that Cata feels like it is going to be a really good expansion
 
i super psyched about it but im struggling to decide which classes to roll. Think im going :-

Worgen Feral Kittypup Druid
Worgen Hunter

Goblin Elemental Shaman
Goblin Warlock

as i cant decide what to be out of those four........so ill roll all four :p
 
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