Old AVR connection to new TV

BuToNz

BuToNz

BuToNz

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Looking for a bit of advice here as I've been out of the AV loop for a while.

Been running a 1080p TV + 1080p AVR hooked up to some nice floorstanders (Surround, center and sub too) for a while now. Currently hook up a bunch of devices to the AVR and then a single HDMI to the TV from the AVR output.

This includes my PC that I play the odd DTS/Dolby enabled movie from. Even though the TV has a few smart functions I basically ignore them and use the PC connection. Since it all runs through the AVR I don't use ARC., the main use case is playing PC games.

So getting to the point - I've just purchased an LG C1 (awaiting delivery) and want to make full use of the 4k 120hz. I have a 30 series card and HDMI 2.1 cable so I think I'm good to go from a picture standpoint but what about sound?

How could I make use of my current AVR/Speaker combo in the most efficient way (Highest available bitrate etc.) without replacing anything?

I have more than the 4 devices than the TV has HDMI connections (4 vs 6 on the AVR). Could I run all the 1080p devices through the AVR still and just hook the PC up directly. Then somehow pipe the audio back to the AVR? I guess avoiding an optical connection as that's super compressed audio right?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Even if it's just 'You're an idiot, just buy a new 4k AVR' :)
 
Standard ARC signals are limited to DD5.1 / DD5.1 with Dolby Plus ATMOS and maybe some DTS depending on the capabilities of the TV. As you probably already know, eARC gives you access to the better quality lossless HD audio just as if you've plugged the source direct in to a HD-decoding AV receiver.

Some of your sources might never send anything better than DD5.1 Streaming rarely (if ever) goes over that. TV broadcast including Sky and Virgin cable maxes out at DDplus, even for stuff downloaded. The most likely sources for anything better than DD/DDplus would be your PC, and anything that's playing your own ripped BD files (subject to how you ripped them), and the lossless audio from a BD player or console that can play Blu-rays and 4K UHD discs. This means that some of your sources can go direct to the AVR as before.

For any source that needs to connect to the TV directly (4K 120Hz DV/HDR) then it's possible to use a device called an audio extractor. This works a couple of different ways.

First, it can take the eARC connection from the TV and create an audio only HDMI signal. In essence this strips the HD audio from the eARC signal for any source connected direct to the TV. This means you'll have Dolby True-HD and DTS Master Audio from the TV's eARC socket via this device and out on a HDMI with a black screen direct to the AVR. This is sort of the HDMI equivalent of feeding optical audio to the AVR and letting the TV display the source signal.

The second feature is where a signal from another source - say a 4K Blu-ray player passes through the extractor. It splits picture going direct to the TV and audio for the AVR as described above. This could help with the source limit on the TV.

Here's a link to one such device: Ebay link It's a shade over £40 plus the cost of some HDMI leads.
 
@lucid Thanks for the detailed response. This does seem like an option but I have some reservations - will the audio extractor work with the 4k 120hz signal? I see it's rated at 18gbps but 4k 120hz requires 48gbps?

Also - is there a way to just pull the audio from the TV into the AVR via eARC on the TV to the ARC enabled port on my AVR? Keeping all devices apart from the PC connected to the AVR with the output from the AVR to the TV providing the video and also doing the ARC for the PC-TV connection? Would it just be simpler to use an optical cable and take the bandwidth hit? I think the AVR only supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD although honestly I could 'make do' with a slightly degraded audio experience for ease of use/setup.

Just for reference the AVR is a Denon 1912 and I have various 1080p capable only devices connected. I may add a 4k Android Box at some point but I certainly won't be using any of the inbuilt LG smart features. Main focus is that PC connection using the full 4k/120hz and getting sound into the AVR system.

I guess I'm hesitant to start looking at 4k AVR's as I'm still very happy with the audio experience I get from my Q Acoustics 2000 series + Denon. I've spent a lot of time tweaking things!
 
Of course it would be simpler to use optical. Cheaper, too. You'll get DD5.1 and whatever the TV does for DTS, so it will be like DVD sound rather than Blu-ray sound. If you don't mind taking that hit then there's your answer.

In your case, you only need 48Gbps compatibility in the TV. The eARC signal from the TV to the extractor isn't carrying picture. It is only carrying sound. You won't get anywhere close to even 18Gbps with an audio-only signal from eARC. It's sound, not picture.

The only time you'd need 48Gbps in the extractor is when you're putting the PC signal through that little box; picture and sound together. But you won't do that. You're connecting PC direct to the TV. Do you follow?

I gave you a starting point. Now you've got the basic principles you can go on to find something that fills your specific needs, then work out if it's worth the cost.

The cost to change the AVR will be fairly steep. The number of units for sale in the £400-£600 market has shrunk significantly since you last dipped a toe in with the 1912.
 
@lucid I see now, I was being a bit of a doughnut there. Somehow thought I'd need to run the 2.1 HDMI into that box and then another out to the TV/AVR. Makes sense now.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond, I think I'll go for the extractor :)
 
Sorry to hijack your thread, but I'm in a similar situation and I'm just a little confused as to what I plug in where and what settings to enable/disable on my TV/AMP/Xbox SX etc!

My AVR is an Onkyo tx-nr676e and doesn't support eArc only "Arc", so my current connections go as follows;

Xbox Series X > > LG C1 (via Hdmi 1) / LG C1 Hdmi 2 (eArc) > > AVR Hdmi out main (arc)

This gives me bitstream dolby digital compressed 5.1 support.

I have now got me one of those HDMI 2.0 audio extractors as mentioned in this thread to try and allow me to get HD audio fed into my AVR, while still retaining the Series X VRR/4K 120Hz support on the TV.

So if I read correctly I now connect it up as follows;

Xbox Series X >>> LG C1 (via Hdmi 1) / LG C1 Hdmi 2 (eArc) >>> HDMI Extractor (Hdmi in) / Hdmi extractor (Hdmi out) >>>> AVR Hdmi out main (arc) ?

I also have a couple of switches on the extractor labelled "Arc on/off" and "Pass/2/5.1" It was set to "Pass" as default.

I have enabled eArc on the C1, but this is where I start to get a bit confused.
 
ljt said:
Sorry to hijack your thread, but I'm in a similar situation and I'm just a little confused as to what I plug in where and what settings to enable/disable on my TV/AMP/Xbox SX etc!

My AVR is an Onkyo tx-nr676e and doesn't support eArc only "Arc", so my current connections go as follows;

Xbox Series X > > LG C1 (via Hdmi 1) / LG C1 Hdmi 2 (eArc) > > AVR Hdmi out main (arc)

This gives me bitstream dolby digital compressed 5.1 support.

I have now got me one of those HDMI 2.0 audio extractors as mentioned in this thread to try and allow me to get HD audio fed into my AVR, while still retaining the Series X VRR/4K 120Hz support on the TV.

So if I read correctly I now connect it up as follows;

Xbox Series X >>> LG C1 (via Hdmi 1) / LG C1 Hdmi 2 (eArc) >>> HDMI Extractor (Hdmi in) / Hdmi extractor (Hdmi out) >>>> AVR Hdmi out main (arc) ?

I also have a couple of switches on the extractor labelled "Arc on/off" and "Pass/2/5.1" It was set to "Pass" as default.

I have enabled eArc on the C1, but this is where I start to get a bit confused.
Click to expand...
Treat the extractor as just a HDMI audio-only connection as you might have from say a BD or 4K player with twin HDMI out (picture to TV, sound only to the AVR). Connect the extractor HDMI to one of the standard HDMI ports i.e. not ARC on the Onkyo.

To summarise:-
...the TV (via its eARC connection) is providing sound only which the extractor is picking up
...the extractor is generating a blank screen image at 720p with audio in whatever format the TV's source signal is providing it. This is the HDMI signal going to the Onkyo
...you're using the Onkyo just for audio only in this configuration (just like you might have done for coaxial or optical, except this time its sound via HDMI) - choose a standard HDMI input and make sure that the Onkyo is selecting audio via HDMI rather than optical/coaxial or analogue
... the TV is taking care of the picture side of things. The source device is connected to one of the TV HDMI inputs, and the TV is sending its audio out via eARC. Remember to turn down the TV speakers if they don't mute automatically

You may need to enable HDMI control.
 
lucid said:
Treat the extractor as just a HDMI audio-only connection as you might have from say a BD or 4K player with twin HDMI out (picture to TV, sound only to the AVR). Connect the extractor HDMI to one of the standard HDMI ports i.e. not ARC on the Onkyo.

To summarise:-
...the TV (via its eARC connection) is providing sound only which the extractor is picking up
...the extractor is generating a blank screen image at 720p with audio in whatever format the TV's source signal is providing it. This is the HDMI signal going to the Onkyo
...you're using the Onkyo just for audio only in this configuration (just like you might have done for coaxial or optical, except this time its sound via HDMI) - choose a standard HDMI input and make sure that the Onkyo is selecting audio via HDMI rather than optical/coaxial or analogue
... the TV is taking care of the picture side of things. The source device is connected to one of the TV HDMI inputs, and the TV is sending its audio out via eARC. Remember to turn down the TV speakers if they don't mute automatically

You may need to enable HDMI control.
Click to expand...

Thanks lucid

I've now connected it all up as you suggested. However I don't get any sound what-so-ever now, even from the built in amazon/netflix apps on the LG C1 tv.

I'm wondering if it's the audio extractor device I've bought (it wasn't the one mentioned on ebay) It was a different one, but the specs look the same. (Hdmi 2.0b, 4k 60hz, Dolby HD/DTS HD support etc)

Just to make sure, this is how I've connected it and set it up;

XboxSX >> HDMI 1 on LG C1 TV / LG C1 Hdmi 2 (eArc) >> audio extractor hdmi in. / audio extractor hdmi out > Onkyo Hdmi 1 in port.

Settings on the audio extractor are set to "Passthrough" and Arc is disabled on the extractor.

Settings on the LG TV are set to;

Sound out = HDMI ARC (and tried eArc option both enabled and disabled, but it made no difference)
Digital sound out = Auto (I have Auto, PCM, Passthrough options. I've tried all 3 but made no difference)

Settings on the Onkyo AVR;

HDMI input 1
Audio = HDMI (have the option of HDMI or Analogue)
CEC = Enabled (also tried disabled, but made no difference)
 
Try it more simply then.

Start out with a HDMI source to your Onkyo, then the Onkyo.out to the TV. This is like having a BD player hooked up. Make sure the amp gets HD audio if possible. Now you have a known base standard ro work from.

Next, introduce the extractor between the source and rhe Onkyo. You're now using the extractor to intercept sound. Since HDCP is involved done be surprised if you have to reboot the source and/or amp to force them to do a new handshake.
 
@ljt Assuming you have a model which looks like the one lucid linked...I think you've probably connected it wrong.

I've got my working like this:
C1 HDMI2 (eARC/ARC)> eARC/ARC (Out 1) then Audio (Out 2) to an Input on the AVR (NOT the ARC enabled port just standard input). Don't use the input port.

Make sure the dip switch is set to eARC.
 
BuToNz said:
@ljt Assuming you have a model which looks like the one lucid linked...I think you've probably connected it wrong.

I've got my working like this:
C1 HDMI2 (eARC/ARC)> eARC/ARC (Out 1) then Audio (Out 2) to an Input on the AVR (NOT the ARC enabled port just standard input). Don't use the input port.

Make sure the dip switch is set to eARC.
Click to expand...

It isn't the same one I'm afraid, I'd purchased it before I saw this thread unfortunately.

The one I have is this one;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PORTTA-Stereo-Extractor-Converter-Support/dp/B08CN5179P

I'm just going through the steps @lucid mentioned now. I've just done the first one, which took more effort than it needed, as when I first connected it all up (with just a blu-ray player connected to input 1 on AVR and hdmi out on AVR to TV) I still had no sound through the speakers. I had to shut everything down and try switching each device on in different orders, until eventually I got sound through the speakers, was a bit of a faff lol!

I'm now going to try the 2nd step so wish me luck haha

EDIT

Well I set it up with BD > HDMI in on extractor > HDMI out on extractor >Hdmi input 1 on the AVR with Main out HDMI to HDMi on TV.

It outputted as normal (as in the same as if the BD player was connected directly to the AVR in step one)

So I thought great! Reconnected back up as I did before (Xbox in HDMI 1 on TV, HDMI 2 ARC on tv out to the "HDMI in" on the extractor then "HDMI out" on extractor to "HDMI input 1" on the AVR.

No sound :( . Tried rebooting all the devices, powering on in different order etc to no avail. So I think I'll just give up lol

I'll make do with DD+ via the normal ARC > AVR connection until a more mainstream AVR with HDMI 2.1 support goes on the market. I don't really want to replace my AVR yet as its only about 2 years old.
 
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This is the exact reason I've never upgraded my Sony W829 1080p set from 2014 and Yamaha v777 AVR. At the time this Amp was great as it had 4k pass thru but then HDR came around and scuppered that so I never bought a new TV.

I am getting a C1 as a gift for Christmas and it's reignited my fears about HDMI 2.1. I thought I'd just look at getting a new AVR which is annoying in itself as there is nothing wrong with the v777 but then there is further complication due to chip issues and some AVR only have 1x 2.1 port...I have a PS5 and Series X...

I think I'm just going to do what you'e doing and make do with an ARC connection and wait for better AVR to be released... :(

EDIT - Been out of the game a while but what's happened to Onkyo?
 
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