Only Thermaltake

Ice Tea

Ice Tea

Ice Tea

Soldato
Joined
1 Nov 2004
Posts
5,348
Only Thermaltake would think they could improve radiators by making
them out of all aluminum :D

Quote
"Thermaltake Technology takes pride in successful bringing the world the best performing products and being approved by everyone around the world. The new Aqua TMG series is Thermaltake Technology’s highest achievement in the top enthusiast market."


http://www.thermaltake.com/news/Press/press060714a.asp

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Liguid/Upgrade/cl-w0072/cl-w0072.asp

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Liguid/Upgrade/cl-w0098/cl-w0098.asp

Muwahahahaaa
 
What's wrong with aluminium? The best performing HSF (Scythe Ninja) is made mostly out of the stuff.
 
Links don't work for me dude! :(

Well, I'm guessing that they will have done some research into the subject before wasting millions on a new production line for it, so they must have come up with some interesting stats. We'll have to wait for the testing and results.

:)
 
Quote

"Heat capacity: aluminum VS. copper
In addition to surface area and the air flow through the heat sink, the material which the heatsink is made of is even more influential in cooling. For instance, different materials have different heat capacities. The heat capacity of a material indicates the amount of heat energy (measured commonly in joules or calories) a certain type of material with a certain mass can receive before it's temperature goes up by a specific amount. The heat capacity of aluminum is measured to be 900J/kg*K, which means that for a 0.25Kg block of aluminum it will take about 1125 Joules of energy to have it's temperature raised by 5 degrees. The temperature of a 0.25Kg block of copper, which is measured to have a heat capacity of 386J/Kg*K, will rise by 5 degrees with only 483 Joules of heat energy. What the heck does that mean? Simply it means that copper will rise in temperature more than aluminum when the same amount of heat is applied. Does this mean that aluminum is a better cooling material than copper? Not necessarily, because there is a more important factor to consider: thermal conductivity."

"Thermal conductivity: aluminum VS. copper
Thermal conductivity, as it obviously implies, is a measure of how well a type of material can conduct heat. A higher thermal conductivity means a better conductor of heat. Copper has almost twice the thermal conductivity of aluminum (401 W/m*k compared to 237 W/m*k), which makes it a clear choice over aluminum for CPU cooling as it can transfer high amounts of heat more efficiently. The main reason for comparing aluminum and copper is because most older HSF products use aluminum for the heatsink, while recently the trend in cooling products is to use copper instead."
 
Right, all of that is correct. Whats your point?

i.e a 120.3 allu rad wouldnt weigh much more than a 120.1 copper rad but would perform better as it has much more surface area
 
Last edited:
Ice Tea said:
Ok so everybody in watercooling is getting it wrong then

everybody change too aluminum radiators
Click to expand...


Didnt say that did I... obviously a 120.3 copper rad will perform better than a 120.3 allu rad. But it wont perform as well per kg which is what they have said.


The copper rad will weigh around twice as much but it wont perform twice as well.
 
Copper is a better conductor but aluminum is a stronger metal. That means that they can make the fin s in the radiator smaller and they can have thinner walls. The end result can be a better performing radiator.

Copper radiators in automobiles used to be the standard construction. Now you'd be a fool to put a copper radiator in a new car. They're all aluminum.
 
I guess everyone has missed the point that copper (which 99% of blocks are made of) reacts hideousley with alu, leaving you with a wrecked loop / comp?

Apart from that it's great :eek:
 
shadydelboy said:
I guess everyone has missed the point that copper (which 99% of blocks are made of) reacts hideousley with alu, leaving you with a wrecked loop / comp?

Apart from that it's great :eek:
Click to expand...

That's what i was thinking,you should never mix the two :eek:

Rob
 
shadydelboy said:
I guess everyone has missed the point that copper (which 99% of blocks are made of) reacts hideousley with alu, leaving you with a wrecked loop / comp?

Apart from that it's great :eek:
Click to expand...

I agree, I never put alu in my loop ever since I opened up my old LRWW alu top to find some lovely blue corosion on the copper.
 
Copper conducts more heat than Aluminium but, Aluminium moves the heat away quicker. This is irrelevant in PC watercooling because the heat has already been moved away from the source by the water.

Look at the best Heatsinks, Copper Heat pipes! Makes sense. Thermaltake speaking rubbish again! Makes sense.

2 reasons why to use Aluminium over Copper in a car rad. Cost? and Weight!
 
weescott said:
2 reasons why to use Aluminium over Copper in a car rad. Cost? and Weight!
Click to expand...

Plus, you aren't going to find much in the way of Copper in the cooling loop of a car to react badly with an Alu rad :)

Tt really ought to stick to air-cooling. They're halfway good at that.
 
weescott said:
Copper conducts more heat than Aluminium but, Aluminium moves the heat away quicker. This is irrelevant in PC watercooling because the heat has already been moved away from the source by the water.

Look at the best Heatsinks, Copper Heat pipes! Makes sense. Thermaltake speaking rubbish again! Makes sense.

2 reasons why to use Aluminium over Copper in a car rad. Cost? and Weight!
Click to expand...

to be fair most of those copper heatpipe sinks, infact all except a couple very old thermalrights use alu fins with the copper pipes. infact thermalrights best performing sinks don't use copper anymore do they? as in xp120, alu heatpipes too.

the thing that most people have missed here, single most important factor in transfer heat is temperature differential. if the fins have been warmed to 30c and the air is 28c the amount of heat the air can take isn't that high as the differential is small. as copper will heat up more for the same amount of heat then the fins might rise to say 33c, in which case the air will absorb more of the heat, and cool the copper faster.

theres a billion theories, the differences in design can complete negate all the good and bad properties of the different metals. likewise a bad design can also make a "better" metal useless.


another thing is, with heatpipes the whole design point of them is not to transfer heat through the tubing itself but the tubing transports gas which can in can hold a lot more energy due to the evapouration process needing a lot of energy, its a whole other way to absorb and use energy. the point behind them is the tubing is the least efficient part of the process. an interesting design excercise would be, how would a xp120 perform if the pipes were solid alu, solid copper, or heatpipes made out of either metal. would there be a difference.

the gas/liquid used is also insanely important, if it has a boiling temp of 100c it would never boil and just be a liquid which is worse at transfering heat that solids. if the boiling point is say 35c but the temp of the heatsink stays above 40c it will stay as a gas and never condense so not transfer heat, which is why the solid pipes i think might work surprisingly well.
 
Drunkenmaster - Ok so I am behind on Air Cooling ;) But the principle of comparison is the same none the less.

"copper will heat up more for the same amount of heat"

I think you are trying to say what I already said. Copper releases heat slower than Aluminium but has a higher heat capacity.
 
BillytheImpaler said:
Copper is a better conductor but aluminum is a stronger metal. That means that they can make the fin s in the radiator smaller and they can have thinner walls. The end result can be a better performing radiator.

Copper radiators in automobiles used to be the standard construction. Now you'd be a fool to put a copper radiator in a new car. They're all aluminum.
Click to expand...

Since when has strength been anything to do with the actual heatsink? You can easily get copper just as thin as aluminium. The only place you need strength is on the mounts.

Also, the reason why they use aluminium in car radiators is due to the weight saving as this helps improve the fuel economy of the car. It also saves them a few quid due to aluminium being easier to work with and cheaper.

Just for a general comparison the average density of aluminium is 2700 kg/m^3. Copper is 8960 kg/m^3. This is a ratio of 3.32. The thermal conductivity of aluminium is just over half that of Copper.

This makes copper the better material for heatsinks/thermally conductive purposes. BUT, it is less easy to work with, it's more expensive AND if you were to make a ninja solely out of copper it would probably shear a gaping hole where the CPU should be. lol :D Can you imagine having a 3+Kg fan/heatsink combo. Nuts lol

That's my 2p anyway :D
 
drunkenmaster said:
to be fair most of those copper heatpipe sinks, infact all except a couple very old thermalrights use alu fins with the copper pipes. infact thermalrights best performing sinks don't use copper anymore do they? as in xp120, alu heatpipes too.

the thing that most people have missed here, single most important factor in transfer heat is temperature differential. if the fins have been warmed to 30c and the air is 28c the amount of heat the air can take isn't that high as the differential is small. as copper will heat up more for the same amount of heat then the fins might rise to say 33c, in which case the air will absorb more of the heat, and cool the copper faster.

theres a billion theories, the differences in design can complete negate all the good and bad properties of the different metals. likewise a bad design can also make a "better" metal useless.


another thing is, with heatpipes the whole design point of them is not to transfer heat through the tubing itself but the tubing transports gas which can in can hold a lot more energy due to the evapouration process needing a lot of energy, its a whole other way to absorb and use energy. the point behind them is the tubing is the least efficient part of the process. an interesting design excercise would be, how would a xp120 perform if the pipes were solid alu, solid copper, or heatpipes made out of either metal. would there be a difference.

the gas/liquid used is also insanely important, if it has a boiling temp of 100c it would never boil and just be a liquid which is worse at transfering heat that solids. if the boiling point is say 35c but the temp of the heatsink stays above 40c it will stay as a gas and never condense so not transfer heat, which is why the solid pipes i think might work surprisingly well.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If we are just comparing the material used then copper is always going to be better. But, it all boils down to design in the end.
 
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