Open University and job sector change

Swampyseifer · 27 Jul 2011 at 11:16

hey guys

could someone try and help me understand all this OU stuff with choosing what course to go for and how it all works?

I am already working on Y178 and have booked down for SDK125 folowed by SDK122. That will get me a Certificate in Health Sciences.

I think, just for my own personal benefit I will complete the certificate. The options then, as I understand it is to either go for a diploma, foundation degree or a full degree.

The careers advisor at the OU said that based on what I said in my email to him, that he would register for BSc Hons in Natural Sciences and probably take S104 for my first course.

All well and good but S104 is a £700 course and the course after that is £620 and involves a residential at Brighton University. After that I didnt even dare to see what more I would need to spend out - not to mention I cant give up the day job!

Even if I choose to go for the Foundation degree in Health Sciences, several of the courses are work-based, where I have to be employed within the health sector (and one of the courses was £1300). All well and good except that I earn a good wage where I am (IT sector) and due to family commitments, cant afford to drop more than half my wage to be able to get a low-end job in the sector so I can do the courses...

I know I'm probably expecting to have my cake and eat it...ie keep my good paying job all the way till I can step from that into another good paying job...but there must be someway I can do this!

I am going to go back to the careers person with these questions but i thought that good ol OCGD would have some helpful advice!

stoofa · 27 Jul 2011 at 11:23

Getting a degree is not cheap.
I'm currently working on a BA (Hons) Business Studies.
This will require me to do at least 8 modules at Levels 1, 2 & 3.
With the most expensive module being £915.

Now thankfully for me I'm being sponsored by work (We pay 50%/50% for each module and once I've earn't my degree they will refund me the 50% I've paid).
If I was doing this off my own back I'd be in a similar situation to yourself.

The only option I'd have would be to do the degree over a very long period.
Also explore the OU payment options - they do let you pay for your modules over a number of months rather than all up front.

Mr Jack · 27 Jul 2011 at 11:42

Swampyseifer said:
The careers advisor at the OU said that based on what I said in my email to him, that he would register for BSc Hons in Natural Sciences and probably take S104 for my first course.

All well and good but S104 is a £700 course and the course after that is £620 and involves a residential at Brighton University. After that I didnt even dare to see what more I would need to spend out - not to mention I cant give up the day job!

Cracking courses

From next year, you will have the option of funding your studies through a student loan like a normal student. The fees are, IIRC, £5k a year for full-time equivalent study but, like a normal student, you won't pay anything until later, until you earn over £21k and as a % of income above that amount.

If you can't afford the upfront fees this might be an option for you.

Swampyseifer · 27 Jul 2011 at 14:30

sadly 5k is nowhere near enough for me...

I'm thinking that maybe I should go through to getting a diploma, maybe that option will give me the best chance to get the best paying job I can for that level.

Then me and the missus could afford a paycut from my current job. Then I would be able to work at the degree or something...

Someone did suggest that I could go for jobs that require higher qualifications than a diploma and I could state that I'm working towards the full degree and they might agree to employ me on that basis - sounds a bit unlikely to me tho

Mr Jack · 27 Jul 2011 at 16:49

Swampyseifer said:
sadly 5k is nowhere near enough for me...

Huh?

McPhee · 27 Jul 2011 at 17:49

Mr Jack said:
Cracking courses

From next year, you will have the option of funding your studies through a student loan like a normal student. The fees are, IIRC, £5k a year for full-time equivalent study but, like a normal student, you won't pay anything until later, until you earn over £21k and as a % of income above that amount.

If you can't afford the upfront fees this might be an option for you.

That is fantastic to be honest. I didn't know they were doing that! I've got to admit, I had the same knee-jerk reaction to the new student finance system as everybody else. I couldn't believe they were going to up University fees to such large amounts. However, the more I learn about the new system the more I like it. It's just much more fair. More people are eligible for more funding, and in return the government will take back more money, but over a longer period. I can live with that. They just need to sort out Further Education now.

Swampyseifer said:
Someone did suggest that I could go for jobs that require higher qualifications than a diploma and I could state that I'm working towards the full degree and they might agree to employ me on that basis - sounds a bit unlikely to me tho

Maybe 5 years ago. In the current job climate you'd be very, very lucky to get someone to agree to that.

Oh, and I believe Mr Jack was referring to this;

http://www8.open.ac.uk/study/explained/fees-2012

All OU courses from next year are £5k/120 credits. You can get a Student Loan to cover this.

Mr Jack · 27 Jul 2011 at 21:25

I think the new system is disgusting but one of its few good features is that they're finally supporting part time students properly.

m4rk84 · 27 Jul 2011 at 21:32

I'm in the rather fortunate situation that I can comfortably afford my degree at the open university on my current full time wage.

The new fees are outrageous though, I feel so lucky that my course will keep the old pricing structure as long as I complete it before 2017.

dowie · 27 Jul 2011 at 22:31

Swampyseifer said:
I'm thinking that maybe I should go through to getting a diploma, maybe that option will give me the best chance to get the best paying job I can for that level.

But getting a degree, if you study at the same rate, will cost as much per year only you'll be studying for a year or two longer. If you can afford to spend a portion of your income pursuing one then you should be able to afford the other.

AFAIK the OU does reduce fees if you're on a low income - if you're unemployed then I believe the courses are free even. I don't think affordability should really be a problem - if you're worried about costs then perhaps you should call them and ask if you qualify for reduced fees.

Mr Jack · 27 Jul 2011 at 22:56

With the OU there is no diploma vs degree choice, you can do enough for the diploma and then decide on whether to continue to degree. You'll have the diploma when you get the points.

McPhee · 28 Jul 2011 at 00:13

Mr Jack said:
I think the new system is disgusting but one of its few good features is that they're finally supporting part time students properly.

In what way?

They've upped financial support across the board.

They've upped the repayment threshold (currently £15k, will be upped to £21k under new system. For the current threshold to hit £21k by 2016 we'd need an average of 7% inflation, which I find unlikely).

You don't pay back a penny until the first new tax year after graduation.

You pay back the same 9% rate per year, but on earnings over £21k as opposed to whatever inflation puts the £15k figure at by 2016. Thus payments per year should be lower (unless inflation sky-rockets, as above).

Personally I think the system is more fair. I didn't like it at first, but then I read in to it. I'm heading back to Uni next year and the new system will put more cash in my pocket while I'm at Uni, and more cash in my pocket for the years immediately after graduating. The trade-off is that I will be paying back for longer (most likely 30 years), but at a lower rate. Personally I think this is OK. I'll be better able to support myself while in University and I'll have more money immediately after University when I'm trying to secure a mortgage. In exchange I'll be paying back for longer, impacting my wages later in to life (when they'll be higher and better able to bare the brunt of the repayments) and I'll be paying back a higher overall amount (helping to fund Universities for future generations without the government needing to borrow so much).

Once you get over the "Up to £9k in fees per year!!!!!!!!!" newspaper headlines it really isn't that bad a system. I'm sure it'll have it's critics, but there's definitely been a massive over-reaction to it so far. The cynic in me thinks that it's all been a ploy to distract people from the fact that the Universities budget is being drastically cut and research funding is dropping massively. I mean, even the "No Confidence" vote at Oxbridge was reported as being about fees, when actually it was more to do with funding concerns.

Swampyseifer · 28 Jul 2011 at 11:18

I meant that getting a 5k loan may well cover the course costs....but what it wont cover is me dropping near enough half my wage to go from where I' am to an entry-grade job in my new job sector.

anyway, this may have kinda been sorted. I read a forum post on the OU site that they have got agreement to bring in a degree that is...a, specific to health science (so now I dont have to be forced to learn about all natural sciences) and b, doesnt require work-based learning - there is probably going to be some residential learning but so long as its not too long I should be cool

Mr Jack · 28 Jul 2011 at 11:27

satchef1 said:
In what way?

It's a worse way to fund education because it largely removes the direct funding of universities and pushes forward the terrible notion of students as consumers.

The payments are lower, yes, but they go on for much, much longer - this is not a better deal. A significant proportion of students will still be paying back their own students loans when their children go to university!

And the government were so incompetent with their projections that the new system is actually going to cost them more in the short term.

McPhee · 28 Jul 2011 at 15:08

The current system is of course incredibly fair. I mean, funding Universities from the pocket of taxpayers or from the overloaded and indebted Teasury instead of asking people to pay for Higher Education themselves is such a sensible idea! We should leave it be, it's not like we're trying to decrease government expenditure without increasing taxes significantly or anything..

The current system was (like a lot of things in the public sector) unsustainable. The new finance system is much more fair. It won't actually burden graduates all that much. I mean, 9% of your net wage over £21,000 (a figure that will rise in line with inflation) isn't a lot considering what a (sensible) University education buys you. Is is a lower monthly repayment than the current system, paid for an extra 15-20 years. If the government need a higher contribution to University then it's quite a fair way of going about it, and much fairer than upping taxes to pay for the current system, or cutting the Universities budget to match current fees.

As for the other stuff, like cuts in the University budgets, research budgets, privatisation of universities etc. I can't say I agree with what they're doing there. That's the stuff that needs debating, not whether or not the new Student Finance proposals are fair because some people have an allergic reaction to dipping in to their pockets.

Mr Jack · 28 Jul 2011 at 15:43

satchef1 said:
The current system is of course incredibly fair. I mean, funding Universities from the pocket of taxpayers or from the overloaded and indebted Teasury instead of asking people to pay for Higher Education themselves is such a sensible idea!

Yes, it's a much better way of funding education, and universities - it's called a public good. It's why we fund education in general.

We should leave it be, it's not like we're trying to decrease government expenditure without increasing taxes significantly or anything..

That's a choice. And, as I pointed out, over the short term this change will cost money.

The current system was (like a lot of things in the public sector) unsustainable.

This is complete and utter tosh. The UK was already underspending substantially on higher education, our paltry 1.3% is lower than the vast majority of countries in the OECD, and the other countries are - for the most part - currently increasing their spending. And then there's the simple fact that the HE sector brings considerably more money into the economy than is spent on it - by a factor of 7 according to independent estimates.

The UK's premier position in HE is under severe threat because of this idiocy.

But, don't we have a dozen threads on this already? Let's take this to one of those threads.

sammo62 · 28 Jul 2011 at 15:45

I find it crazy that I have a degree from Warwick for 1/5th the price of an OU degree.

Mr Jack · 28 Jul 2011 at 16:04

sammo62 said:
I find it crazy that I have a degree from Warwick for 1/5th the price of an OU degree.

My Warwick degree was free, and worth every penny

My OU degree was about £6k all in, I think. I'd personally rate the OU as better than Warwick.