Optimal protein intake?

What, because somebody presents a thesis that wasn't based on a single old study, and isn't using the knowledge your mate at the gym pimps, it needs repudiating?

Ask any half-baked sports science grad and they will tell you broadly the same thing: bodybuilders consume too much protein. The issue is that the facts et clouded by adverts in Men's Health and BBers who need that extra help because they're supplementing.
 
Ask a civil question and you are bound to receive an immediate and uncivil response is fast becoming the norm on some of these forums :rolleyes:
We know protein intake is a contentious issue it is just useful to ascertain current experience with current literature.
 
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They're a lot of different diets that provide different macros for each nutrient, i do think Protein intake is too high these days, i would rather decrease my Protein intake and up my Carbs or Fats as i feel like i have more energy that way and feel better as a whole.

I used to supplement a lot, i did replace whole foods for shakes and i don't recommend doing that at all, it created problems for me overtime, now it's the case of a multi-vit, fish oils etc and three meals per day, and the only powder i have now is Essential Amino Acids for before and after i train.
 
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It's funny, I would say the general population don't eat enough protein and that gym ratz eat to much. Personally I've found no real difference between 'medium' and 'high' amounts of protein. I aim for 130g+/-20g or so, sometimes I'm as high as 180 but that's usually on a burger king binge or similar :p. The only time I supplement with shakes in general is when cutting weight, getting protein in when your cals are restricted is a lot easier with whey.

'Wes said:
And the only powder i have now is Essential Amino Acids for before and after i train.
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What do you make of EAA's? I supplement with BCAA pre/post (only when training fasted) and I'm undecided. They're chuffing expensive but I do notice a big difference in recovery, I get virtually 0 DOMs with ~10g pre ~10g post.
 
I am basing the next statement on absolutely nothing but personal experience.

My BW currently is around 105kg, with a lean mass of approx 85/90kg (unsure exactly as haven't measured BF for sometime) I aim for 175g of protein a day, most days I will have a milk based protein shake in my diet to help reach this, very occasionally I will have 2.
I definitely notice less musclar aching on this amount of protein, and I always notice more muscle ache if I consume less (I am talking 30/40g less however not 5/10g)

That is just me personally nothing scientific about it.
 
ethan said:
Ask a civil question and you are bound to receive an immediate and uncivil response is fast becoming the norm on some of these forums :rolleyes:
We know protein intake is a contentious issue it is just useful to ascertain current experience with current literature.
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Apologies for what (upon reflection) was a blunt and impolite response - your roll-eyes was thoroughly deserved.

Practically, however, in the sports science arena, the number is on 1.8-2g of protein per kg of lean mass based around that study that measured nitrogen use and not specifically protein.

The only studies where additional protein over an appropriate and balanced diet (two key qualifiers in that statement) in the form of whey actually made any difference over a placebo is in people either in or past middle age. (i.e. late 40s to 50s). Admittedly, the last time I checked this was in in 2009 (my University library journal access has since been revoked) so things may have changed, but I very much doubt human physiology and supplementation have changed in that period.

On the flip side, an anaylsis was done of strength athletes (i.e. Olympic lifters) which found that they only needed/consumed between 13-20% more protein than the average 'elite' athlete.

So what is a balanced diet? And how much does somebody need of what each day? It's not practical for somebody to consume enough protein to cause them renal problems unless they are doing something stupid (prolonged Atkins doesn't help, for instance), in the same way it's not practical for somebody to get potassium poisoning from eating bananas (can you eat 30 of them without bringing some back up?). So following basic dietary advice is best: more activity? More food. Carbs = good for activity and make for love handes without activity. Fat = important energy source for activity, but bad for inactivity. As pointed out already, the majority of the population probably do not consume enough protein in their daily diets, which is not a 'balanced' one.

The human body is such a mess of different variables introduced through muscle fibre type, base-line physiology (i.e. how much nutrition does someone need just to stay awake each day), digestion, etc. that putting a precise value on protein intake is impossible.
 
In a nutshell;

optimal amount of protein for muscle protein synthesis - 20g protein with 8.6g essential Amino Acids
 
kai said:
per meal, ISOSN conference claimed so i am assuming this is 2.5 - 3hr intervals... not sure :(
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If that's the 6 meal per day routine, then following that routine isn't the only method to produce protein synthesis, as you know anyway Kai, so if that conference states that it can only be achieved through that routine, then they're wrong.
 
I have to say I've never been a fan of the 1g/lb rule, an never listened to it, besides it should be per lean lb anyway.

Besides, if you're natural the max amount of optimal protein synthesis is around 40g anyway (it's a bell curve). And the curve is less pronounced as you become a well trained lifter - because your body is generally in a more metabolic state owing to carrying more muscle mass - but this again is open to conjecture and debate.

The reason why it's spouted? Easy. Gym and supplementation companies wanting to sell you their products. There has never been a need to ingest so much protein. Unless you're doing naughty things, even as a high level athelete you just do not need hundreds of grams of protein. Fats and carbs are just as important, furthermore, it's more about the amino acid profile than just protein (of course that's all proteins are).


EAAs on their own taste like **** though :(
 
DogsBody said:
I am basing the next statement on absolutely nothing but personal experience.

My BW currently is around 105kg, with a lean mass of approx 85/90kg (unsure exactly as haven't measured BF for sometime) I aim for 175g of protein a day, most days I will have a milk based protein shake in my diet to help reach this, very occasionally I will have 2.
I definitely notice less musclar aching on this amount of protein, and I always notice more muscle ache if I consume less (I am talking 30/40g less however not 5/10g)

That is just me personally nothing scientific about it.
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Did you find your muscle ache was related to consumption of your milk based protein shake though? I remember a study where sports people drank milk vs some other post/pre workout drink and the subjects drinking milk had faster recovery times and less muscle soreness.

Just saying it might be what you are consuming rather than just the volume of protein.

Personally I have seen the best improvements when I have increased my vegetable intake vs protein. It's all about balance.
 
milgo said:
Did you find your muscle ache was related to consumption of your milk based protein shake though? I remember a study where sports people drank milk vs some other post/pre workout drink and the subjects drinking milk had faster recovery times and less muscle soreness.

Just saying it might be what you are consuming rather than just the volume of protein.

Personally I have seen the best improvements when I have increased my vegetable intake vs protein. It's all about balance.
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No,

I used to get muscle ache even when i drank a shake post exercise, now however I am trying to lose weight so am monitoring all of my macros, since doing this and increasing my protein intake, I have noticed less muscle ache.
 
milgo said:
Did you find your muscle ache was related to consumption of your milk based protein shake though? I remember a study where sports people drank milk vs some other post/pre workout drink and the subjects drinking milk had faster recovery times and less muscle soreness.

Just saying it might be what you are consuming rather than just the volume of protein.

Personally I have seen the best improvements when I have increased my vegetable intake vs protein. It's all about balance.
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Leucine or whatever that amino acid is that milk has lots of: very helpful for muscle damange.
 
Given that the article seems to summarise somewhere around 0.75 - 0.85 g per lb, rounding up and consuming 1g per lb as per the general consensus seems reasonable.

OK, protein is more expensive whether consumed as food or as a supplement, but it's much more satiating than either fats or carbs.

I'm a big fan of Lyle McDonald and some of his recommendations are as follows:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mu...irements-for-strength-and-power-athletes.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/the-baseline-diet-part-2.html

I personally aim for 1g per lb when bulking and 1.5g per lb when cutting (primarily because of the satiating effect of protein).

I'm also a big believer that we evolved from a diet rich in fats and proteins from high quality sources - think deer (e.g. venison) and fish (e.g. salmon). We have extremely large brains for our body size and they require a huge amount of fat (structurally) and energy (e.g. fat, but I realise the brain uses glucose).
 
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