Orange peel paint

[lordrobs]

It may just be that i've only been noticing it recently but has the quality of paint on cars actually been going down in recent years?

It doesn't seem specific to any particular models but the worst offenders i've seen of late have been a black Civic Type R (05) and a Black / Dark Purple Stilo (53) Both of which seemed to have a definate texture to the paint. Comparing it to my 8 year old car and I was quite dissapointed with the finish of the newer machinery

Has any body else noticed this?

 

[Baron G]

I think environmental concerns have meant the types of paints used today are less hard wearing than previoulsy.

However, if a swan tries to eat your car, its less likely to die of lead poisoning.

 

[Jonny69]

Yeah, it's bloody terrible on some cars. I'd send it back if I took delivery of one!

It's down to one thing: cost. Environmentally the manufacturers pay for the amount of VOC they put out so they use less thinners. They only spray on about 2 coats and then don't flat it by the looks of it. 2-pack paint is self levelling to a point so they can't leave it long enough, just spray it and whack it straight in the curing oven.

Cheapskates

 

[iv-tecman]

It is the new types of 2 pack clear they are using. It’s a self levelling clear, that flows when you spray, and then the hardener (activator) reacts when it flows together and dries. There are also now legislations over paints as well as environmental issues (VOC etc), plus it’s all about getting the car out of the paint shop as fast as possible. Shortest cure times etc... 2 pack clear is hard within 24 hours, put it in an oven and it will be cured even faster, and give off less VOC. the less time it takes to fume out, the less VOC the paint will create. But you still need a lot of breathing gear, as the hardener is not good to breath in...

They use this, as it’s a quicker turn a round and requires only a few coats, and no cutting back and levelling off. Sadly, it does sometimes orange peel up a little.

My Honda has orange peel, I keep meaning to get a paint measure and see just how thick the paint level is. I can see the orange peel down one side if I look at the right angle, and in the sun it’s very apparent, but I’m not about to cut it out until I know how much clearcoat I’ve got. 2 pack is hard, but it’s not as hard as some older cellulous type paints, but not as soft as some of the newer acrylic clearcoats either.

The sales guy at Honda told me when I mentioned it that they leave the orange peel to stop bird muck affecting the paint. WFT..!! I couldn’t believe what I’d heard. I simply replied yeah right…!! Only if you lay down a “damn” good coat of polish and wax, and the wax works into the orange peel and gives a barrier would that actually work. Some sales guys will tell you anything.

To sum up, there is basically now a days two types of clear they could be using, acrylic lacquer clear coat and urethane clear coat. Acrylic clear coat almost certainly needs to be cut back and polished, as this will not level off well enough, but urethane clear requires the activator, to harden it up, and this is what levels it off and then dries when it reacts to each other and dries smooth. Mostly it does, but a very small texture that looks like orange peel is being left behind, but they do not cut this out, as it’s not as bad as Acrylic clear and requires fewer coats to gloss up, whereas Acrylic needs many coats to build up the gloss.

 

[Dogbreath]

I'm fairly sure at some manufacturers are using water based paint now. As with virtualy all "eco-friendly" alternatives, their performance is rarely a patch on the solvent based products they replace.

 

[Malachy]

I'm fairly sure at some manufacturers are using water based paint now. As with virtualy all "eco-friendly" alternatives, their performance is rarely a patch on the solvent based products they replace.

lol best not leave my car out in the rain, well i suppose i could just touch it up with emulsion

 

[Spanker]

Not 100% sure on this but i think the clear coat that the car manufacturers use is still a 2k product, it is just the base coat that is water based. The paint finish on cars has become more peely over the last 12yrs or more tbh.

 

[iv-tecman]

When he says water based, I think he means acrylic based products. The clears are, AFAIK still a 2 pk clear, and are harder then acrylic based clears.

Acrylics are based on water, but the water evaporates out, and then water doesn’t affect them once dry. Being water based the VOC (fumes) are a lot less, whereas 2 pk require the activator that contain chemicals that give off a higher VOC, but the chemical evaporates quicker, and respond faster to direct heat.

Or at least this is what I think it is, I could be wrong.

 

[ironman]

I think environmental concerns have meant the types of paints used today are less hard wearing than previoulsy.

Tell that to the nano ceramic paint on our Merc!

 

[Spanker]

Tell that to the nano ceramic paint on our Merc!

I think Merc offerd this finish on there cars 1st, Standox now make a paint that offers the same qualities to the refinshes trade.

 

[Dead Dog]

orange peel is down to application 99% and mixing 1%.
doesn't matter what paint you use,old or new if you put it on badly it'll OP, it has nothing to do with it being newer paint. 'new' HS(high solids) paints have been around for quite a while now, i've been using them for the last ten years (approx) what makes them HS is the colour pigments or clear particles are actually smaller than with old or MS(medium solids) paints, thus a small area can contain more small particles than bigger ones(same reason 16v is better than 8v), thats why coverage is better than MS.
as a rule the cheaper new cars will be more orange peely than expensive ones, nowt to do with the paint, apart from the fact they allow more in the budget for a bit more paint to give a better finish.
all paint manufactures will stop producing solvent base coat paint latter this year and go water based, this will still use solvent clears.

if orange peel is a good thing, we have one of the best painters in the world at or place

 

[James_N]

The paint on the CTR is VERY thin.

By contrast the paint on my 1989 volvo estate is near perfect, still after all those years.

 

[danza]

I saw an 06 Fiat Stilo parked in front of us in an MFI carpark, and I couldn't believe the poor finish on the paintwork. It was black, so it stood out like a sore thumb. I compared it to my R reg Astra (which ain't perfect), and the Stilo looked terrible in comparison!

I guess it's to do with speed of manufacture/VOC regulations as others have said. It is a shame though.