outdoor enclosure

[maddness]

Hi, looking for some advice here if possible please, I purchased and set up a standard off the shelf outdoor cat enclosure (a catIo / cat run), which I set-up to the side of my house, I have an extension at the front/side of my home for over 20 years, this enclosure sits behind the extension and basically at the back door area, my indoor cats come out of the back door and directly into the enclosure. It's approximately 1m away from my and the neighbours fence (which is 6 foot tall with 1 foot trellis ontop - 7 foot total height).

One of these units -https://www.4mypet.co.uk/large-catio-cat-run-12ft-x-6ft-x-8ft-tall

looks similar to this when set up:

This is not a fixed structure like the custom ones you see online, no base, no bricks no foundation, just a wooden one like above and sits on the ground (in my case concrete) with a couple of through bolts to keep it stable. Prior to getting this I spoke to the neighbour (between us) and he didn't have any objections in fact he offered to help me put this up when it arrived. This is not visible from the road or anyone else except this neighbour next to my property.

Fast forward a month later it finally arrived and the neighbour (owner) is on holiday, I put this up with a friend and the cats are enjoy using this daily. Surprisingly I received an email from city council advising "a neighbour" has made a complaint for this "unauthorised side extension" essentially to have this taken down within 28 as I didn't seek planning permission. The email goes on to say you can sought out a retrospective planning application but it will unlikely be approved being in an conservation area.

There's another person living with the neighbour and it turns out he is the one who put the complaint in, this is a person who I've known for a number of years BTW and not had any issues with. I spoke to him briefly when I saw him outside one day and admitted he put a complaint in because he just doesn't like it. He can probably see 1 foot of the top of it over the fence. He didn't bother speaking to me at all about this but put a complaint in and they can deal with it with myself.

I did check with the supplier who advised this is not an extension or outhouse as it is not a fixed structure, it's a similar classification to a shed if anything.

I did call the owner who is still on holiday but he was reluctant to speak about it as he is still on holiday.


I wouldn't have thought to get planning permission for this type of enclosure. Funnily the shed it replaced was of similar size and 6.5 foot at the point.

I did some research into this and it meets the criteria of height, total area etc, also this is not affecting any wildlife etc (it's on concrete surface) or loss of character of the area etc.. it is not visible from the front or side roads.

I will speak to solicitors about this next week, I'm assuming the best way forward is to have city council to have an inspector out to complete their due diligence?

Has anyone had a similar experience such as this? and can advise on the best way forward please.

Also the only form of communication I have received is an email which I am guessing the neighbour gave, is this how communication is done nowadays? I would have thought I would have received an official letter at least.

Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[maddness]

Why not just speak to the planning dept.? If that was a legit email there's presumably contact information provided?

If what you have is really as innocuous as what you've pictured I can't see planning permission being an issue (assuming it isn't a conservation area or something).

Spoiler: spoiler

he mentioned in the conversation that he spoke to "his friend" at the city council and sent him pictures and raised a complaint

yeah it is off the shelf exactly like in the picture, it is in a conservation area as mentioned in the op

 

[maddness]

Thanks guys, I will call them Monday and speak to the TL and discuss briefly.

Yep we're in a conservation area, is there anything to say what the rules are for a conservation area, I can't find anything specific for any of the conservation areas locally except usual blurb that there "may" be restrictions but not what specifically the restrictions are.

And good point about being a responsible pet owner.

 

[maddness]

 

[maddness]

so I written to the planning team manager indicating why I believe this is not an extension and it's not a fixed structure they replied in the spoiler (snippet of it):

Spoiler: spolier

 

[maddness]

lmao, all polite and to the point it was

Spoiler: spolier

This outdoor enclosure is a standard off-the-shelf product which is highly customisable and comes as a flat packed unit with 12 panels, put together by roughly 30 screws which takes approximately 2 hours to put up.

 

[maddness]

I believe if its attached to the house its classified as an extension even though clearly for "normal people" its no such thing

You may want to check with the same planning officer if it was a similar structure but not connected to the house and that it complied with the limits to height etc it would be ok, if not could be explain specifically why not.

Then assuming he says yes if its not connected then its not an extension and needs to comply with outbuilding rules as opposed to extension rules, then move it 5mm away from the house. Reinforce the corners a little, add a couple of extra down pieces at the back (where it would have connected to the house), add a few extra securing bolts and you should be fine.

This is useful as is the link to the defra site that is supposed to list all the designations, zoom in to your area, click the respective options on the left side.

https://www.npfencing.co.uk/blog/do-you-need-planning-permission-for-your-shed-or-summerhouse

cheers for this

 

[maddness]

so from the planning portal:

Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not requiring an application for planning permission, provided all the conditions are met.

The rules governing outbuildings apply to shed, greenhouses and garages as well as other ancillary garden buildings such as swimming pools, ponds, sauna cabins, kennels, enclosures (including tennis courts) and many other kinds of structure for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house. This includes a container used for domestic heating oil or petroleum gas.

=============================================================================================================

Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

• No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
• Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.
• In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from the house to be limited to 10 square metres.
• On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.
• Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.

*Designated land includes national parks and the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty, conservation areas and World Heritage Sites.




so i am guessing this cannot be done then without planning permission, and he said in his reply that city council will not approve if i submit an application

 

[maddness]

so I will speak to them tomorrow and see options, I guess it's a designated conservation area and I already have an extension to the side from 20 years ago, I think the gripe is this "extension" or any other type of standalone structure wont be allowed as it will cover more than 50% of the side area.

worst case is I can probably relocate it to the back patio part, there is a large back bay window which I can change over into patio doors I guess (probably need planning permission for that LOL) and then put it there, will see options tomorrow and will need planning permission for this too if it goes here.

Spoiler: spoiler

yellow where it is, red is probs where it can go

 

[maddness]

Rear is downwards to back garden, top is front, right is side

 

[maddness]

So I had a chat with the chap from the council he was sound, essentially the unit cant go as an extension to the side of the house and it will be rejected as it's not fitting with the area, essentially similar brickwork would be fitting, fair enough. If a shed has been taken out and replaced the new unit will be considered as an addition. Also the unit cant go as an extension on the patio area again due to the fitting of the building area

We discussed about relocation of the unit and it can go in the back garden anywhere as this is the back of the house, no other conservation areas restrictions over permitted development - essentially it cant be more than 2.5m high, he was quite helpful and said make sure you don't put it on a base etc as that will be counted as the height, he said I cant have it attached to the house but there is no defined distance so 1 asked if it can for instance be a few cm away from house, he said as long as it is not attached to the dwelling-house and he put this in his e-mail reply

I asked what area is considered the side of the house and back of the house, he had a look at a few things for about 10 mins, and said he will have to come back to me, I said if he can e-mail me.

Now I got a reply saying - I have attached a plan showing, for planning purposes, the definition of your back garden (grass area highlighted in below spoiler), but it didn't really answer the question about the side and back boundaries.

Is there anyway I can find out what the boundary definition of the side of the house is, just imagine the back of the house starts at the part after the main building of the house... and not include the extension / outhouse just before the garden, I should add that this was likely put up when the house was built and it is the kitchen

does anyone know for sure where I can find the exact definition of side and back of the house

Spoiler: spoiler

 

[maddness]

But what was his view on could it be there if it was not attached, I couldn't work this out from your post

If it was not attached it still couldn't sit in that "side" area of the house due to conservation area rules, the argument is that is the side of the house or the back of the house

 

[maddness]

a - is this classed as rear of house boundary?
b - or is this classed as rear of house boundary?
c - catio
d - kitchen outhouse (joined to main house)
e - main house

if the back of the house starts at a) then the catio (where it currently stands) is at the back of the house with the kitchen, if it is b) then the catio is at the side of the house

i believe the the kitchen (which is an external outhouse was built at or around the same time of the house, probs in the 1930s

i highlighted in second picture if the rear boundary line is from the corner of the kitchen outhouse then the rear of the house will be in red
if it was from the house itself excluding the kitchen outhouse then the catio is basically at the rear of the house

Spoiler: spoiler

 

[maddness]

Will a surveyor be able to confirm what is classed as what?

Not really sure where I can find this info

 

[maddness]

What is it to the side of the house, a garage maybe?
I dont think that constitutes the main dwelling so your current location would be to the side

The part where I written "side" on the 1st pic is an extension built at the front side of the house

 

[maddness]

If I take the kitchen down ..I mean I have both an uber eats and just eat account with plenty of discount codes

On a serious note it would be great to 100% confirm the area info as it could sit virtually next to him if it's deemed back instead of side lol

 

[maddness]

cheers i've sent a trust

thanks for your help

yep house to the left does have a kitchen sticking out, i think all do on the same road

 

[maddness]

permitted development is valid in my conservation area, I checked this an the planners confirmed so.

I checked the next area from me and they have it pretty rough, like you say all permitted development rights have been revoked, even a small shed for them in the back needs planning permission in their conservation areas.