outdoor enclosure

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I believe if its attached to the house its classified as an extension even though clearly for "normal people" its no such thing

You may want to check with the same planning officer if it was a similar structure but not connected to the house and that it complied with the limits to height etc it would be ok, if not could be explain specifically why not.

Then assuming he says yes if its not connected then its not an extension and needs to comply with outbuilding rules as opposed to extension rules, then move it 5mm away from the house. Reinforce the corners a little, add a couple of extra down pieces at the back (where it would have connected to the house), add a few extra securing bolts and you should be fine.

This is useful as is the link to the defra site that is supposed to list all the designations, zoom in to your area, click the respective options on the left side.

https://www.npfencing.co.uk/blog/do-you-need-planning-permission-for-your-shed-or-summerhouse

 

[Dave85]

With a sarcastic answer like that I would certainly be going all Karen on them and taking it higher. Smarmy sarcastic prat answers like that are not on. Possibly the numpty next doors mate at the council you think? I would also be going out of my way at this point to make it as ugly as possible and that they see it from any part of the garden.

 

[dlockers]

Tbf we haven't seen OPs original email which was likely pratty and sarcastic too if it mentioned time took to build the thing

 

[maddness]

lmao, all polite and to the point it was

Spoiler: spolier

This outdoor enclosure is a standard off-the-shelf product which is highly customisable and comes as a flat packed unit with 12 panels, put together by roughly 30 screws which takes approximately 2 hours to put up.

 

[maddness]

I believe if its attached to the house its classified as an extension even though clearly for "normal people" its no such thing

You may want to check with the same planning officer if it was a similar structure but not connected to the house and that it complied with the limits to height etc it would be ok, if not could be explain specifically why not.

Then assuming he says yes if its not connected then its not an extension and needs to comply with outbuilding rules as opposed to extension rules, then move it 5mm away from the house. Reinforce the corners a little, add a couple of extra down pieces at the back (where it would have connected to the house), add a few extra securing bolts and you should be fine.

This is useful as is the link to the defra site that is supposed to list all the designations, zoom in to your area, click the respective options on the left side.

https://www.npfencing.co.uk/blog/do-you-need-planning-permission-for-your-shed-or-summerhouse

cheers for this

 

[maddness]

so from the planning portal:

Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not requiring an application for planning permission, provided all the conditions are met.

The rules governing outbuildings apply to shed, greenhouses and garages as well as other ancillary garden buildings such as swimming pools, ponds, sauna cabins, kennels, enclosures (including tennis courts) and many other kinds of structure for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house. This includes a container used for domestic heating oil or petroleum gas.

=============================================================================================================

Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

• No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
• Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.
• In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from the house to be limited to 10 square metres.
• On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.
• Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.

*Designated land includes national parks and the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty, conservation areas and World Heritage Sites.




so i am guessing this cannot be done then without planning permission, and he said in his reply that city council will not approve if i submit an application

 

[DB_SamX]

Annoying, but I'll say the response from the planner is polite and to the point.

I know the whole point of a catio is rssy access to and from tge house, but any way to kove it far enough it's not to the side of your house, with a mesh tunnel to cat flap, or similar?

 

[maddness]

so I will speak to them tomorrow and see options, I guess it's a designated conservation area and I already have an extension to the side from 20 years ago, I think the gripe is this "extension" or any other type of standalone structure wont be allowed as it will cover more than 50% of the side area.

worst case is I can probably relocate it to the back patio part, there is a large back bay window which I can change over into patio doors I guess (probably need planning permission for that LOL) and then put it there, will see options tomorrow and will need planning permission for this too if it goes here.

Spoiler: spoiler

yellow where it is, red is probs where it can go

 

[dlockers]

Lol, is that your neighbors enormous polycarb lean-to/garage?

 

[DanTheMan]

Also, is is to the side of the house if it's technically on the side of what looks to be an already existing extension, which is to the rear of the house?

 

[maddness]

Rear is downwards to back garden, top is front, right is side

 

[Slade2]

Lol, is that your neighbors enormous polycarb lean-to/garage?

I wonder if that has planning permission? - the person living with your neighbour sounds like a douche bag to be honest. You would have not had any issue with that if he had not made the complaint. I dont like there out of character over the top car port either.

 

[kinetic747]

Isn't the fence over regulation height at 7ft? I thought the maximum was 6ft? May as well make it 8ft then he can't even see it.

 

[maddness]

So I had a chat with the chap from the council he was sound, essentially the unit cant go as an extension to the side of the house and it will be rejected as it's not fitting with the area, essentially similar brickwork would be fitting, fair enough. If a shed has been taken out and replaced the new unit will be considered as an addition. Also the unit cant go as an extension on the patio area again due to the fitting of the building area

We discussed about relocation of the unit and it can go in the back garden anywhere as this is the back of the house, no other conservation areas restrictions over permitted development - essentially it cant be more than 2.5m high, he was quite helpful and said make sure you don't put it on a base etc as that will be counted as the height, he said I cant have it attached to the house but there is no defined distance so 1 asked if it can for instance be a few cm away from house, he said as long as it is not attached to the dwelling-house and he put this in his e-mail reply

I asked what area is considered the side of the house and back of the house, he had a look at a few things for about 10 mins, and said he will have to come back to me, I said if he can e-mail me.

Now I got a reply saying - I have attached a plan showing, for planning purposes, the definition of your back garden (grass area highlighted in below spoiler), but it didn't really answer the question about the side and back boundaries.

Is there anyway I can find out what the boundary definition of the side of the house is, just imagine the back of the house starts at the part after the main building of the house... and not include the extension / outhouse just before the garden, I should add that this was likely put up when the house was built and it is the kitchen

does anyone know for sure where I can find the exact definition of side and back of the house

Spoiler: spoiler

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I told you about the gap its a technical thing, its a bit odd but I suppose it makes sense as well.
5mm is a gap, it would be obvious enough

I believe that side counts as anything to the side of the original dwelling, so the extension would be ignored. I believe really its focussed on line of sight from the road so its a bit daft when you consider the extension, but the laws the law.

If you could prove that bit to the side, Kitchen?, was built with the house and was not actually an extension you would have a strong case that the original dwelling was in fact right up to the boundary and its basically impossible to be to the side, its a staggered behind in effect.

But what was his view on could it be there if it was not attached, I couldn't work this out from your post

 

[e36Adz]

Also, is is to the side of the house if it's technically on the side of what looks to be an already existing extension, which is to the rear of the house?

This ^

If the catio is currently at the side of an already existing REAR extension, then by default the catio is also at the REAR of the house, it's simply to the side of the extension part.

What you need to know is which line actually constitutes the 'rear' of the house. If that rear extension/kitchen was built with the house then it appears you can only place the catio on the grass area.

Edit: Definitely complain about his 7ft fence panels, they should be 6ft I think as someone else mentioned. Will give him an even better view of your catio.

 

[gc123]

i assume you would have to put another side on the catio and if it was me just put it on the garden and make a mesh/netting tunnel to the house just stopping 5/10mm from a cat flap.

otherwise just do what we did and i suspect many others do and let the cats roam free , they can look after themselves, first house we had had a nieghbour with about 5 siamese damn they ruled the back gardens, god help any cats or dogs that tryed to muscle in on them

 

[maddness]

But what was his view on could it be there if it was not attached, I couldn't work this out from your post

If it was not attached it still couldn't sit in that "side" area of the house due to conservation area rules, the argument is that is the side of the house or the back of the house

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

What is it to the side of the house, a garage maybe?
I dont think that constitutes the main dwelling so your current location would be to the side

 

[maddness]

a - is this classed as rear of house boundary?
b - or is this classed as rear of house boundary?
c - catio
d - kitchen outhouse (joined to main house)
e - main house

if the back of the house starts at a) then the catio (where it currently stands) is at the back of the house with the kitchen, if it is b) then the catio is at the side of the house

i believe the the kitchen (which is an external outhouse was built at or around the same time of the house, probs in the 1930s

i highlighted in second picture if the rear boundary line is from the corner of the kitchen outhouse then the rear of the house will be in red
if it was from the house itself excluding the kitchen outhouse then the catio is basically at the rear of the house

Spoiler: spoiler