Overclock OR 64bit? A Dilemma

Tigjaw

Tigjaw

Tigjaw

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This thread has evolved from my previous topic on the discussion of upgrading from 32Bit to 64Bit.



I acquired Windows 7 64bit Professional from my university and before doing a clean reboot (upgrading from XP) I wanted to know how much I could squeeze out of those juicy 64bits. The obvious thing everybody knows about is the higher memory capacity. I thought "fantastic, I'll just order some extra RAM, job done".

But something came to my mind, I fairly recently made a modest overclock on my E6600 @ 3GHz. Of course to overclock you need to alter some RAM settings.

This brought up a question about my proposed RAM upgrade. Surely the new RAM won’t like the fact that my RAM timings and voltages are altered. 'Simple' I thought, I'll just reset the BIOS, reverting the overclock, timings, voltages to factory state, install the new RAM and then re-apply the overclock. But I better check with somebody 'in the know' first.​


Chapter Two of the 64bit story:

Without further ado I emailed OCUK's support via web-note with my query, the correspondence can be seen below albeit in a 'snipped' form:

{From me}
...[SNIP]...
I currently have 2GB of PC2-6400 of GSkill RAM and was considering buying some more RAM to reach my current maximum of 6GB.

However, as I have overclocked my CPU and changed my RAM timings I was wondering how that would affect me? Can I just install the new RAM without any problems or do I need to change/modify anything first?

...[SNIP]...
Click to expand...

Reply from Support:
{Reply from support}

The simple truth is; if you have an overclocked CPU and you want to insert more RAM into the system, you have to choose between the OC'd CPU or the extra RAM. As the extra RAM wouldn't allow for there to be an overclock on the CPU...

So obviously, you have to make a decision on what you want your system to be for mainly, if it's a gaming system go for the extra CPU power, if you're looking to use programs like the Adobe suite more often than most, then go for the extra RAM, really.
...[SNIP]...
Click to expand...

My reply to first response:
{From me}

Thanks for your email. I'm afraid I'm quite confused.
My motherboard can handle 8GB, but I already have installed 2GB (2x1GB) of GSkill PC2-6400 RAM. This means using the current RAM I can reach a total of 6GB if I buy 4GB of PC2-6400 RAM (2x2GB) - this is what i planned to do.

The problem is - as mentioned in my initial web note - I have overclocked my CPU and altered my RAM timings to adhere to the overclock.
...[SNIP]...
If the addition of more RAM will have an issue with an already-in-place overclock then what steps do I need to take in order to have my CPU overclocked with the new RAM? Or is it just impossible to overclock the CPU with more than two memory slots occupied?
Can't I remove the overclock, reset the RAM settings, insert new RAM and then re=overclock?

Surely there must be many people who have overclocked their system, then bought 64Bit, then wanted to take advantage of the higher RAM capacity but also wanted to either keep their overclock or re-overclock once the new memory is installed? Or is this just not possible?

...[SNIP]...
Click to expand...

And finally their second reply:
{Second reply from support}
When you add more RAM to an overclocked CPU and Motherboard, the RAM pretty much can't take to the voltages that you've amended them too, so you'd risk just not throwing enough power into your motherboard to get the RAM working properly, really.

But yes, you're right - there are people who have overclocked their CPU and had 8GB of RAM, and gone for a 64bit OS, but obviously it takes a lot of trial and error - and I couldn't mean that in any better way, overclocking with more RAM than needed usually means failure is going to take place, and you can somewhat guarantee you're going to either short your RAM or motherboard, or maybe the CPU - it's something our techies don't recommend you do unless you have extensive experience. The one thing which deters people from doing the OC on a CPU with 8GB of RAM, is the fact that the OC itself wouldn't even be high enough to justify all your effort - so people usually just leave it at stock value.
...[SNIP]...
Click to expand...


And that brings us back to present day.

It seems, according to what I've been told so far that there is little support for a newbie overclocker to overclock a 64bit system utilising - to quote - "more RAM than needed".

But now that 64bit is slowly becoming the standard, most prominently in the client-side market where overclocking will have quite a large foothold on system builders, surely people will want to have more than 2GB of RAM and at the same time want to overclock that system without having to be an expert. When will this support be in place, and what options are there for us relatively newbie OC'ers to have this cake, and eat it?

Perhaps something should be added to the beginners guide to overclocking to adddress this issue.

I apologise for the very long post and I know this won’t be an issue for most. But for those of us that want to upgrade and don't want to have to compromise this seems like quite a dilemma.
 
You can overclock with any ram you choose to. How far it clocks will vary. To state that using more than their standard amount of ram prevents overclocking or will cause things to fail is untrue.

For example. P5Q, 8gb ram, quad core processor ran at 3.8ghz. P5Q, 4gb ram, same processor, ran at 3.8ghz. It made no difference at all. I'm expecting my current system to lose about 200mhz from its maximum when I move from 6 to 12gb.

32 vs 64 bit operating doesn't make any difference to stability, though you can stability test more aggressively with 64 bit systems.

It helps if the ram is matched. One set needing 1.8V while the other needs 2.1V means one set will get the wrong voltage, as you have to run both at the same voltage. Similar argument with timings, both sets will run at whatever the worse set can handle. Matching size of the sticks doesn't matter so much though it'll help.

Pretty much just stick the additional ram in, set to fairly gentle timings (5-5-5) and speed of fsb x2, and overclock from scratch again. Otherwise your previous settings + more on the northbridge may well work out stable without much effort.
 
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No you don't have an extreme overclock so it will be fine with your current settings.

Any problems from adding more ram can usually be solved by adding a little more voltage to your chipset.
 
Well, for a start, don't use 6GB of RAM with that system. As it's a dual channel CPU, there won't be as big a benefit from 6GB as there is from 4GB. 4GB is more than enough RAM really. Only reason i7 has 6GB is because it's tri-channel.

I had no problems running my E6850 at 3.6GHz with 4GB RAM on 64bit Windows 7. Don't see why you should.

Then just do what Ross1234 said. Buy new RAM (4GB) install it, and reoverclock. Simple, and job done.
 
You can overclock with all RAM slots filled, it just becomes a bit harder - especially when you have an on chip memory controller (which you dont).
 
Hey chaps, it sounds like the OCuk techie was being more cautious for my sake, and rightly so.

Thanks for all your replies, it does however sound like the resounding resolution is to sell my current RAM and just buy new RAM.

However...
sldsmkd said:
You can overclock with all RAM slots filled, it just becomes a bit harder - especially when you have an on chip memory controller (which you dont).
Click to expand...

Are there any guides to doing this? I'd like to explore the option before having to replace a component

also just to confirm... although I said I was going for a total of 6GB, that didn't mean I was buying tri-channel. I was simply going for this configuration:
M1: 1GB Gskill (already own) Dual Channel Pair 1
M2: 1GB Gskill (already own) Dual Channel Pair 1
M3: 2GB (dual channel pair of 2, to buy)
M4: 2GB (dual channel pair of 2, to buy)

Anyway that seems irrelevent now.

Reality|Bites said:
No you don't have an extreme overclock so it will be fine with your current settings.

Any problems from adding more ram can usually be solved by adding a little more voltage to your chipset.
Click to expand...

So, as my OC is quite modest - went from 2.4GHz to 3GHz - you think I should be able to fill the remaining memory slots without much trouble, if any?
But if there is some issue, I just increment voltage to the RAM?

By the way, I forgot to thank the OC techie for his emails, so... thanks!
 
yeah you should be fine, The chipset contains the memory controller so give that a bump in voltage if the system is unstable.

You would only increase the FSB voltage if your were pushing your FSB(of course).
 
Reality|Bites said:
yeah you should be fine, The chipset contains the memory controller so give that a bump in voltage if the system is unstable.

You would only increase the FSB voltage if your were pushing your FSB(of course).
Click to expand...

Super thanks Bites,

Now I have a few options:
  • Remove my current RAM and install 4GB of PC2-6400 (2x2GB)
  • Remove my current RAM and install 4GB of PC2-8500 (2x2GB)
  • Keep my current RAM and install new 4GB PC2-6400 to reach 6GB total and re-overclock processor

I have no idea which one of the above will provide the highest performance.

Will the third option have any adverse effects on the RAM already in there? ie. will it lose its dual channel-ness :) ?
 
Tigjaw said:
Now I have a few options:
  • Remove my current RAM and install 4GB of PC2-6400 (2x2GB)
  • Remove my current RAM and install 4GB of PC2-8500 (2x2GB)
  • Keep my current RAM and install new 4GB PC2-6400 to reach 6GB total and re-overclock processor
Click to expand...

Right. Getting new RAM has the possibilities of the new stuff needing different settings to your current. Changing to PC2-8500, you'll gain 1-2FPS.

Filling all RAM slots can still, even with an NB memory controller, require you to change your CPU overclock. Unlikely with an Intel chip, but the NB is controlling the FSB too, which means its communication with the CPU.

If you want to definitely upgrade your RAM, go with the 4GB PC2-8500. Thats what I did on my old PC. I used to have 4x1GB PC2-6400 GeIL, and changed to 2x2GB OCZ. There was a noticeable performance increase, surprisingly. (the GeIL was overclocked to ~900Mhz, 4-4-4-12, hence my surprise)
 
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