Overclocking i7 4790k

ProfitMajin

ProfitMajin

ProfitMajin

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24 Nov 2018
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42
Hi all,

I've been playing around with my 4790k, learning the ropes of overclocking and trying to get the most performance from my rig.

I've looked through several guides and threads regarding this cpu, I think I'm in line with what others are getting, but I want to take my cpu further.

My rig and current stable OC is:

Asus z97 pro gamer
BCLK 104
System agent 1v with offset +0.23
IOD offset 0.225
IOA offset 0.22

I7 4790k @ 4.8ghz (4780) 1.275v vcore, 1.95 vcin
4.6ghz (4560) cache @ 1.26v
Cooler - arctic freezer 240 74 CFM using 4 fans in push pull config
Kingston beast 2080mhz 9-11-11-27 @1.7v

The voltage used to run at 4.8ghz seems to be on the good side of average, but my limiting factor is heat.

This current OC hits 85C absolute maximum during prime95 (266), which means it runs around 75C peaks during normal usage, which I'm happy with. However if I try to give it anything over 1.3v vcore, I start hitting temperatures in the 90s during the same prime95 (266) runs.

I'm not sure why my temperatures are so high though, I've seen some people saying they've given theirs 1.4v, and able to keep it low 70s with mid-high end air coolers, yet my cpu starts to burn up with anything over 1.31v on water. Additionally there seems to be a delta of 10C between the hottest (#1) and coolest (#4) cores during stress testing, where core 4 can be in the low 80s whilst core 1 reaches low 90s.

I've been able to 'stabilise' 4.9ghz at 1.32v iirc, and by that I mean it passed hyperpi, cinebench, and real bench, but running prime95 266 would scare the crap out of me with the temp on core 1 hitting 94C.

I want to get that mythic 5ghz people, I believe this chip has the potential, I just need to be able to cool it down somewhat, any suggestion of things I can try would be most welcome!

Thank you,

M
 
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Thanks for the quick replies!

I think delidding is probably the only other thing I can try really isn't it... I'm up for trying it, but I am worried that I'll mess it up.

I've read a few articles on delidding, my main concern with using liquid metal is that people often state you must be precise with the amount you use, less you cause a short.

Is that mostly a precautionary statement, or is delidding really quite the challenge?

Thanks again,

M
 
Thanks again for the quick replies and detailed posts!

It's definitely less intimidating the more I watch videos on the process, I saw somewhere that the 4790k has a line of components along the edges of the die, which can be risky if there's too much LM, so I guess that's where the varnish would come in.

If I got the de-lid kit, the LM, and a fresh batch of thermal paste for contact with cooler, I'm looking at around £45, with the de-lid kit being the biggest expense here, how difficult is a de-lid without the kit?
P.s, I'm not looking to ignore advice here, just trying to save cost really - if the other methods are too risky then I'm basically just gambling the small £30 outlay for the potential cost of a new CPU...

I do find it odd that de-lidding has such an impact, you would have thought Intel would have adopted the use of LM or some other material and learned from the fact that this process works so well. It boggles my mind that they sell even their extreme range CPUs without maximising the potential for LM to reduce temps further... Do AMD chips see the same/similar benefit from de-lidding?

M
 
Very good points!
I guess for run-of-the-mill CPUs it's redundant anyway, but you'd have thought that for their top of the line XE models you'd get some kind of upgraded TIM or some such, although as you say I suppose that's left for should anyone want to push their chips even further.

In terms of confidence levels, I'm comfortable putting together PCs and working inside a case etc. but I don't have any experience in modifying chips/components. The closest I've gotten to that is installing the CPU AIO, which is to say not close at all to a de-lid :D

Unfortunately, I'm not a dab hand at DIY either so I don't have any vices or other tools that might help me there, so I suppose I should spring for a kit really, otherwise, it'd be a razor blade and that sure doesn't sound too safe!

Also, I've seen quite a range of recommended operating temperatures for CPUs in general, and specifically hot chips such as the 4790k - with my current OC peaking at 85C during prime, my usual operating temperature is peaking at around 75C, is that still too high?
Cooler CPUs are always preferable ofc, and I would love to hit 5Ghz, but it'd be nice to know how this current 4.8Ghz OC holds up if I end up chickening out...

M
 
Thank you once again for the quick replies!

I must admit, this encouragement is making me feel more confident in giving it a go! Especially in that video where the guy used a vice to de-lid in a few minutes... so if I take it slow, I may well be able to do it lol

I'm in the SE of UK, Maidstone/Medway Towns area to narrow it down somewhat, that would be awesome if anyone is able/willing to do that :D

Oh quick question; I've seen a lot of people saying about re-lidding, which I think I'd like to do should I go ahead with this - which glue/material is best used for sealing the thing back up? Also I saw about putting nail varnish on over the capacitors, the Mrs. has quite the collection, is there a certain type I should look for? Other than it being clear ofc!

Thank you once again,

M
 
ahhhh so I can bling up the insides whilst I'm at it with a nice metallic purple of some sort! :p

I did want to ask about the nail polish idea... would sealing the other components with varnish/other material not cause them to overheat at all? I'm guessing not as I've seen this often as advice on how to avoid short circuits, but wanted to ask all the same!

The dot of epoxy in the corners does sound like the better idea, keeps it together whilst easier to open again if needed. I did also see people saying that the layer of adhesive can cause changes in temperatures just in the sense of it spacing the die further from the IHS, so it seems to me like using the least adhesive possible when resealing is the way forward. I've looked up some epoxy at some stores near me, is this the sort of adhesive we're talking about? (please forgive my DIY noobness lol) - https://www.screwfix.com/p/araldite-2-part-epoxy-adhesive-tubes-opaque-2-x-15ml/2457h

Thank you again for the help folks!

M
 
You guys are awesome!

If I end up de-lidding this thing, I'll make sure to let you know how I get on, and I'll likely at the very least take some pictures as if it all goes well I won't be opening another for some time!

So just to make sure I've got this right:
Get a kit like De8auer's - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/der8auer-delid-die-mate-2-hs-003-dr.html
Remove the IHS using the kit, and scrape away the black adhesive Intel used (using a credit card or similar), clean off the TIM using some paper towel dipped in cleaning solution/similar.
Apply nail varnish to the SMDs & let it dry for a while.
Apply a dab of LM to the die & spread with tool in kit, repeat for the underside of the IHS, apply a dab of this epoxy stuff on the corners, place the IHS down and pray... let set for an hour?
Hopefully profit from reduced temps!

Sounds simple enough, I don't believe there are any places near me that offer a de-lid service so if I want it, I gotta step up :D

Regards,

M
 
Thank you folks!

I was also wondering - what are the benefits/drawbacks of using the BCLK to overclock? I can reach better core clocks using the BCLK, in that a BCLK of 100, and Core multiplier of 49 (4900MHz) requires more volts than BCLK of 104 and multiplier of 47 (4888MHz), but the results are very similar.

This also comes into play with my RAM in a similar fashion, but I'm playing it conservative with the Cache speed on the 104 BCLK, and that could be contributing to the core/ram requiring less voltage.

And so, which would be the better tradeoff here? Higher Cache Clock with slightly lower Core/RAM, or slightly higher BCLK (any direct benefits of this?), along with slightly higher core & memory clocks?

I was also wondering as to the heat generation in a CPU, in terms of overclock settings. For example, if I'm pushing the Cache, and thus give the ring more volts, how will that affect the overall heat generation in the CPU versus increasing the core voltage?

Got a bit in depth there! Thank you for any and all assistance folks :D

Thank you,

M
 
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Webzta said:
I delidded mine using a printed version of a delidding tool from a popular auction site was only a few £. Used it on 4790k + 8700k.
Click to expand...

That is definitely encouraging!

I'm guessing the main trick is applying enough pressure to break the seal, without scraping the IHS over the delicate components, the rest just needs a steady hand...

Well, I've decided... I'm gunna do it folks! Not right this moment, but I've decided it's happening thanks to your encouragment! I'll be sure to take pictures and share with you all ^_^

M
 
Well that is good to know!

I once dropped a CPU butter side down onto the socket and got paste in all the little holes... spent roughly an hour scraping paste out of the holes and off of the pins without bending them and thankfully it worked! Made for a nerve racking hour or so though :rolleyes:

See now I have a reason for a 3D printer though...
 
I've been looking around at De-lid tools on 'popular auction site', and there is quite the variety...

Should I avoid any of these? Mostly I'm seeing full metal De-lid tools, would that damage the chips at all? Would the 3D printed one or De8auer's kit be better for any particular reason?
 
Webzta said:
Don't think it makes any odds, mine was one of the 3d printer plastic ones and was fine.

Make sure you get some thermal grizzly liquid metal & thermal paste
Click to expand...

Will do, I'm going to get the following two products:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ther...-liquid-metal-thermal-paste-1g-th-021-tg.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ther...formance-thermal-paste-1-gramm-th-020-tg.html

And will reseal with this stuff:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/araldite-2-part-epoxy-adhesive-tubes-opaque-2-x-15ml/2457h

What's the general concensus on custom headspreaders such as the all copper ones? Would that make much of a difference to temperatures on top of using LM and Kryonaut?

Thank you,

M
 
Excellent! Thank you kindly.

I'm running a Vega 56 Pulse in conjunction with this CPU, do GPUs benefit from De-lids/similar modifications? I've undervolted it but it does still get rather hot, reaching 70C and turning the PC into a bit of a radiator for the room lol

I was just thinking that, I'll likely have some material left over after doing the CPU, and I have an old GPU that I could practice on, if it's at all similar that is.

Thank you,

M
 
Thank you once again folks!

I saw Gamers' Nexus' video where he showed what happened when LM met Aluminium, and it definitely wasn't good!

I was thinking I could potentially use some of the spare Kryonaut product on the GPU if it'd be worthwhile, I've got the Sapphire Pulse Vega 56 which seems like it's cooled really quite effectively, but it still runs a tad hot. I may leave that for another time though!

I do have an old 3770k I could practice on, as far as I can tell the amount of LM I'll be getting will last for around 10 applications?

M
 
Hello again!

I've been looking into this topic a bit further, and came across thermal pads, and wanted to know the general opinion on the matter. These are the type of thermal pad I'm referring to:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/thermal-grizzly-carbonaut-thermal-pad-32-32-0.2-mm-th-02h-tg.html

From reviews and tests that I've seen, the product appears to perform around 90%+ as efficient as some of the better thermal pastes, when compared to arctic MX4 (I believe). Although the pad has the added advantage of not needing to be replaced, my main point of interest was that it was also suggested that the pad is able to even out hotspots on processors, achieved via the product's much higher thermal conductivity in the XY directions, which would be great as I've found that my CPU's core #0 gets to around 12C hotter than the coolest core.

There are other benefits of course, such as there being no mess to clear up should the cooling solution be replaced/reseated, but I've never used a thermal pad before and wanted to know your opinions, and also whether there are any drawbacks I may not have considered. Although there are other benefits to the pad, it mostly piqued my interest due to the statement of evening out hotspots, but it sounds almost too good to be true.

Thank you!

M
 
I didn't even think of using it under the IHS tbh, I would agree that LM seems to be the best for under the IHS, and hopefully, that would do the trick regarding the hotspots.

Mostly I was thinking of using the pad on top of the IHS to even out any potential unevenness that could maybe cause hotspots? Reviews/tests with the product are quite scarce at the moment, the ones I have seen compare it to products such as MX4, so I'd imagine in comparison to Kryonaut it may come up lacking.

M
 
I've just been watching a review from GN on the Radeon VII where he tested the stock solution which used a type of thermal pad, and then replaced it with Kryonaut.

In the test, Steve concluded that when the die is uneven, the pads will always come out on top, as they're superior for ensuring contact, but on an even surface, the paste should win due to being thinner.

I've seen some other reviews from GN on needing to LAP the later i9 generation Intel CPUs as they're uneven, but I can't seem to find any info on whether or not this was an issue for 4th gen. If they're also known for being uneven, it might be best to opt for the pad.

M
 
an0nym0us said:
I don't think anyone meant for you to use the Carbonaut thermal pad between the CPU die and IHS. If there was uneven contact between the CPU die and IHS, then the the IHS may potentially require lapping (on inside and out, basically wherever it's not flat). However, this is unlikely the main cause of your problems. Your high and uneven temps are most likely due to the original TIM drying up and no longer being effective. The thermal conductivity of liquid metal is far better than the thermal pad, so since there is very minimal chance of liquid metal having a chemical reaction between the CPU die and the inside of the IHS, the choice would nearly always be to use liquid metal for this interface.

If you wish, you can use the Carbonaut thermal pads or regular thermal paste between IHS and cooler. Either should be fine. I've not tried the Carbonaut thermal pads yet personally, but the reviews seem decent, so I'm actually very keen to try them out.
Click to expand...

Excellent thank you!

Yeah, I think I might well give it a go, and I suspect that you're right that the original TIM is likely the reason for the uneven core temps, but then saying that it seems like the pad performs well enough versus paste, and there is some QOL perks to be had with the pad.

Thank you once again! :D

M
 
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