Overreaction warning: World War 3

[Von Smallhausen]

Now looking at that your probably thinking "lol, old migs, no chance", because a lot of us grew up with top gun and know migs are rubbish, however in the real world it would be an even fight.

MiGs have consistently been at the forefront of capability as the 15 was which caused US pilots problems during the Korean War.

The MiG 29 is a highly capable plane no doubt but are its pilots as capable ?

Perhaps your description of the F-16 is a little harsh ?

The 51 plate Mondeo I had didn't seem to handle as well as the F-16 and I don't recall an M-61 along the side. Shame though as it would have made short work of X reg Corsas with bean can exhausts, lowered suspension and a park bench spoiler nailed to the roof.

 

[ubersonic]

isn't it the f-15 that has never lost a pilot/plane i ncombat?

iirc there was an American/Israeli pilot who flew one home with a wing missing.

Sorta, originally it was "the F15 has never shot down", then when Syrian MiG's downed Israeli F15's it became "USAF F15's have never been shot down" then when one was taken out by AA fire in the recent[ish] invasion of iraq it became "never shot down by air to air fire". But the missing wing thing is true, its a great testament to the planes speed and pure thrust.

But what are they armed with?

the very best mig in the world will fail against an older plane with advanced American air to air missiles if it only has outdated and poorly serviced soviet stuff.

Kalinigrad AA-1's (MiG-17 and MiG-19)
Vympel AA-2 (MiG-21)
Vympel AA-7 (MiG-23)
Molyniya AA-8 (MiG-21, MiG-23 and MiG-29)
Vympel AA-10 (MiG-29)
Vympel AA-11 (MiG-29, MiG-23)

I believe the bottom two are comparable to the Sidewinders and AMRAAM's used by the USAF and that the AA-7 is equivalent to the USAF Sparrow missile, IIRC.

Perhaps your description of the F-16 is a little harsh ?

Well yeah but you get the point, it has one engine because that's cheaper than two, it was designed to be cheap and replace the F4 as the mass produced backbone of the USAF not to be an all conquering super plane.

 

[Naff8000]

I recall reading about the American Joint Chiefs saying that the South would win easily. Their defence budget is 100's of times higher than the North's and there was all types of small things such as North's tanks unable to cross rivers etc.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Well yeah but you get the point, it has one engine because that's cheaper than two, it was designed to be cheap and replace the F4 as the mass produced backbone of the USAF not to be an all conquering super plane.

I do get your point dude.

It was never designed to be a superiority fighter like the Eagle or Flanker as you say.

 

[ubersonic]

I recall reading about the American Joint Chiefs saying that the South would win easily. Their defence budget is 100's of times higher than the North's and there was all types of small things such as North's tanks unable to cross rivers etc.

The US army prob thought the exact thing just before the Vietcong handed them their ass ^^

I do get your point dude.

It was never designed to be a superiority fighter like the Eagle or Flanker as you say.

Yeah I don't mean to diss the plane but its not really on par with a MiG-29 (assuming the MiG is working and actually armed lol)

 

[Von Smallhausen]

The US army prob thought the exact thing just before the Vietcong handed them their ass ^^

Standing armies against guerilla forces always have problems.

Britain with a force of around 500,000 couldn't defeat a Boer force of about 25,000 in the 1899-1901 conflict without resorting to scorched earth, blockhhouses and the first concentration camps.

Afghanistan seems little different a hundred years later even with the technology leap.

 

[Tefal]

The US army prob thought the exact thing just before the Vietcong handed them their ass ^^

except in this case it would be the viet cong invading the homeland united states, so very very different.

 

[ubersonic]

Afghanistan seems little different a hundred years later even with the technology leap.

Afghanistan have beaten the British Empire, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great and the USSR so I don't think their that scared of the coalition to be honest

 

[neil3k]

I think the Fulcrum's have been specifically setaside for the air defence of Pyongyang. So no need to worry about them.

 

[cbarker118]

Afghanistan have beaten the British Empire, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great and the USSR so I don't think their that scared of the coalition to be honest

The land does the fighting as much as the insurgents from what I've heard. Vast and rugged.

 

[Cosimo]

except in this case it would be the viet cong invading the homeland united states, so very very different.

Except in this case there is no Viet Cong.

 

[The Funktopus]

I think the Fulcrum's have been specifically setaside for the air defence of Pyongyang. So no need to worry about them.

Quite. Even if they were serviceable, they'd be hopelessly outdated and completely outmatched by South Korea's KF-16's and F-15K Slam Eagles. Not to mention the yawning disparity in training, tactics and experience between the NKPAF and the ROKAF.

 

[Stolly]

In a long/medium range fight the MiGs would stand no chance at all vs modern air to air missiles. From what I've read if it came to a shooting war, they would try to keep air battles at extreme close range over North Korea to try to negate the technical superiority of the South Korean/US airforce. I think the life expectancy of a North Korean pilot would be very short indeed.

I don't know if that is true or not, but if so it kind of precludes any attempt to invade the south. They can't expect any invasion to succeed if they are going to totally cede the air above their troops and more importantly forward road network to the ROK air force.

 

[Stolly]

Quite. Even if they were serviceable, they'd be hopelessly outdated and completely outmatched by South Korea's KF-16's and F-15K Slam Eagles. Not to mention the yawning disparity in training, tactics and experience between the NKPAF and the ROKAF.

Quite. Probably one of the most complete pieces of research into this in the public domain is here.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?128528-Bluffer-s-guide-Fortress-North-Korea

Interesting read, but its not looking good for Best Korea.

 

[The Funktopus]

Quite. Probably one of the most complete pieces of research into this in the public domain is here.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?128528-Bluffer-s-guide-Fortress-North-Korea

Interesting read, but its not looking good for Best Korea.

Cheers Stolly,

Being a member of the forum posted I was going to post that, and Planeman's other works on Russia and Iran which are equally impressive. He even gained notoriety in the press in Korea and China for the quality of his guide to North Korea.

 

[Tefal]

He even gained notoriety in the press in Korea and China for the quality of his guide to North Korea.

how so?

 

[The Funktopus]

IIRC he was mentioned on several news websites in Korea and China, all linking to his threads on MPNet.

There's one article I can find that links to it, I'm sure there were more.

 

[Booner!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12067735

North Korea is ready for a "sacred war of justice" using the nuclear deterrent, its armed forces minister has said.

Kim Yong-chun said exercises conducted by South Korea near the border were a preparation for war with the North.

The drill is one of the largest in South Korea's history, involving tanks, helicopters and fighter planes.

Tension has been high since North Korea shelled the South's Yeonpyeong island last month, killing four South Koreans.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak has promised immediate retaliation to any further Northern attack.

More hot air from NK? or...?

 

[matt_fsr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12067735

More hot air from NK? or...?

Hopefully. The problem is all it takes is one low-level commander to let loose a few shells, and it'll all kick off from there.