Owned...

[Rainmaker]

You may remember my thread a while back, after I bred a nice litter of Russell pups out of my working terrier bitch, Gypsy in June 09.

It seems one of the buyers has taken it upon herself to sign up to forums telling the world how she got the puppy after it was abandoned in a cardboard box on some randomer's doorstep.

Actually she was purchased from me by the poster in question, at 8 weeks of age, with a vet check and certificate, microchip, free insurance, free puppy care book, free food vouchers, a personalised care guide and advice sheet, and a lifetime "return/refund" guarantee so that I can ensure the pups' welfare. My domain email, home address, and phone numbers were printed on everything (paperwork, receipts etc), with the express statement that buyers should contact me with ANY worries, concerns or problems - whether now or in 10 years time.

Can you say "OWNED"? For your GD amusement. Enjoy.

 

[Rainmaker]

The abandoned in a box claim was in reply to a "phishing" PM sent by my mate enquiring about her "rescued" puppy.... She's kept all replies to personal email, frantically digging deeper (blaming everything from her dad to her vet, who she won't give me details of) and requesting several times I remove my posts lol

EDIT:

Hello she was left abandoned in a box outside a lady i knows house, this lady runs a staff rescue so couldnt have her, so she rang me and we took her on. she was quiet but soon come out of her shell.

do you want a list of rescues with terriers in? also in news papers like the loot and farmers guardian there are loooads of jrt and lil terriers for sale cheap. Yasminxx

 

[Rainmaker]

I see, not much ownage in your post then.

Really? She's posting around the interwho that she found poor little Nula in a box (she's done it on other forums too), along with her other "rescue dogs", when actually she's purchased it from me. I'd say that's a pretty big BSer busted right there.

Maybe I just see it differently since it was MY reputation being tarnished when other working dog people recognised the pup....

 

[Rainmaker]

you should screenshot the PM into the thread as proof of the cow she is. THATS true ownage

LOL I am considering posting the email exchange... She shifts blame between her dad, her vet, then tries to make out I'd docked the pups illegally (despite having been handed a DEFRA certificate!).

 

[Rainmaker]

yeah without a screen shot of the pm this is fail go do it now!.

As I said it was my mate who received the PM - I'll ask him for a screenie.

 

[Rainmaker]

I don't see any "ownage" my self. What's going on then?

I sold a puppy, from a very well reared and well "backed" litter. Next thing one of the buyers is going around telling everyone how she's a wonderful dog rescuer, and poor little puppy was abandoned in a box. Meanwhile people in the working dog world are wondering why my "carefully placed" pups are being abandoned??.... I call her out, and the public silence is deafening. I call that ownage, ymmv.

 

[Rainmaker]

if you could delete that post it would be much appreciated. i just had to say that so we could keep her in my dads house which we rent and it stuck. please delete that post. nula is VERY loved here.

[SIZE=-1]You never once explained that you were buying a pup your landlord (father or not) would have not have allowed. I would have been very reluctant to sell under those circumstances, to anyone. In any case, that didn't necessitate you telling everyone on forums she was a rescue, with some huge story behind it.

I have replied to every email you sent me, and indeed received further replies back from you in return; apologies if some seem to have gone missing. A good friend of mine owns the server in the datacentre where the emails are routed, I'll be happy to get him to dig them out of the logs and re-send them if you have any information missing.

What kind of trouble have you had regarding the docking? You have a DEFRA certificate signed by a vet, so you have no legal worries. Do you mean medical issues? This is why every puppy owner received a sheet with my full name, address, email and phone numbers on it. You have plenty of ways to get in touch with me, and as I said I am always available to help should any issues arise. You have painted me in a very bad light, and seem to be trying to do so now again.

I have done everything required of a breeder, and more, and you were always free to contact me with any worries or concerns.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE]

We have since bought our home, it was just to keep him quiet in the process and he loves her more than us lol. Nula is honestly cracking and most definately safe, loved and has the best life, the best food etc.

No not medical issues the vets were asking lots of questions, lucky I know the vet and he advised me to tell people too that she was a rescue dog as she was docked far far too early & if people were asking questions we could be in trouble as docking is illegal. It was easier to say we didnt know her background as we do not ever want her parting from us.

We love her to bits didnt want any hassle from anybody asking questions about her, she certainly has no medical issues, shes a lively confident girl whos very sociable with everything she meets.

That is very concerning. Your vet is very much INCORRECT to the point of slander. Please forward me details of the practice so I can put my own vet in touch to clarify the fact they most certainly did not dock the pups "too early". In fact the docking age is set out by LAW, and is 100% LEGAL as well as approved by the veterinary community. That's what your DEFRA certificate is for, no need for "cover stories"... I explained all this to every buyer, and indeed on the puppy advice sheet. I'm surprised your vet hasn't reported mine to the RCVS, if that was his belief. After all, my vet's name and address are on the docking certificate!

Quite on the contrary, if you had "rescued" her and didn't have a certificate you WOULD be breaking the law. Only by buying her from an ethical breeder, with the microchip and DEFRA certificate, can you remain free of legal worries. To own a dog (by any means) with any dock and no paperwork is ILLEGAL - "rescued" or not. I'd like to speak to your vet first thing tomorrow to set him straight, if you'll be kind enough to get back to me with his details. Glad Nula is still doing well.

Many thanks,

Oh she is doing fine, loves her food and fish she is mad for it.

To be honest I am going to leave the reptile forum now. If you could delete your posts much appreciated. I have done nothing wrong, nula is loved and very well looked after here. If you could delete your posts in reply to me much appreciated.

I will send some pics of her to you, did you get the ones of her tshirt/dress?

Thats the last email i sent you and got no reply.

[SIZE=-1]Glad to hear it.

Yes I did get those pics, and I did reply I promise you. I'm very sorry you didn't receive it, but I promise you it was sent - it was nice to hear from you with updates and I have never ignored contact from any of the buyers. You may feel you've done nothing wrong, but at the end of the day you've told lies (whether because of your father or the vet, or both?) and have tarnished my reputation in the process.

I'm fairly well known in the working dog world, as it's a tight knit one. I have had several calls wondering what on earth is going on for my puppies to end up abandoned, and it hasn't done me any good I can tell you! I've had a lot of explaining to do and I still have messages and calls coming in as I type! With that in mind, rather than deleting my post I'd much prefer if you could actually respond, and confirm that I am not an irresponsible breeder who allows his pups to end up on doorsteps! Not only that but perhaps salvage your own reputation in the process. I trust you understand where I'm coming from.

As requested in my previous email, please send over your vet's details as I'm very much looking forward to speaking to him tomorrow, and it would save time if you can send me the number to save me digging out the Yellow Pages. As I said, any problems or issues PLEASE contact me. It would avoid a lot of issues all round, and I really don't bite. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

So far, after that last push for the phone number of the vet who allegedly told her I'd docked the pups "too early" and that the dock is illegal - silence. I get the feeling a vet said no such thing, but then it wouldn't be the first thing she'd said that didn't add up.

I realise upon reflection this isn't so much ha-ha lol funny if you're not involved. But I hope I provided you some passing amusement at any rate. It's certainly true to say she's backed herself well into a corner, and changed the subject at every opportunity when pressed for answers/vet phone number/etc.

I just don't get the point of spinning yarns and telling porkies like this. Especially when the breeder (1) was already a member on that particular forum and (2) had advertised the pups on there four months ago if only she'd checked. lol She could have done my reputation some real damage if this had gone un-noticed. "Rainmaker peddles pups to idiots, they end up sat out in the rain in a cardboard box" etc.
[/SIZE]

 

[Rainmaker]

As was said above, these pups were rather distinctive (it's very rare blood these days) and as such the pups stand out a mile to anyone "in the know". I don't believe I damaged my reputation in any way, and for the record I'm not a "pro" breeder, simply a working dogman of many years who didn't like the fact one of his puppy buyers was running around telling fairy tails about how a recognisable puppy from his line was abandoned in a cardboard box somewhere.

I realise that you might just need to be "into the dogs" to realise just how hurtful and harmful such an aspersion would be, but surely it's not that hard to understand? I worked damn hard on those pups and did everything I could to give them the best start in life. To have someone trailing around telling folk how it was simply cast to the side of the proverbial road isn't on.

Yes my post could have been more measured, but why should it have been? I was civil, factual and basically asked her to defend herself if she had a reasonable explanation. Her immediate (and as stated, permanent) withdrawal from the forums and repeated requests for me to take down the post said it all imho.

Oh well, move along. Nothing to see here etc. Jesus.jpg and so on.

EDIT: To save on replies/explanations, no "Jack Russell's" aren't rare. But 50% working Sealyham blooded working terriers are, and also lend a very distinctive 'stamp' - you can spot my pups a mile away.

 

[Rainmaker]

By the looks of it then you really have to be into dogs and or know you to connect with this story on anything but a rudimentary level.

Not dissing, just an observation

Fair enough mate. Suffice to say my friends in those 'circles' found it much more of a chuckle. Oh well, I tried. Beats a fail joke thread I suppose (OK, I hope)...

 

[Rainmaker]

The lady's husband has since come in from work and sent me a reasonable (and BS free) email. It would appear she's worked herself up over this (understandably!) and he has apologised and clarified some of the "statements" she made which weren't entirely accurate.....

Suffice to say I've told them no hard feelings, and that I hope they stay in touch. Their care of the pup was never in doubt, only the fact the lady was going around saying the pup was neglected and abandoned. It seems we can draw a line under this, and no more silly stories will be spread around. Win/win.

Dogma, yeah they're hen's teeth these days - especially proper working (non-show) ones. A real shame, as a good Sealy is hard to beat!

 

[Rainmaker]

screenshots of the message or it didnt happen

the quote could be self typed I always question un-screenshotted quotes

If I was that kind of weirdo I could just as easily message my mate from a dud account. Thanks for reading though.

 

[Rainmaker]

Someone lied on t'internet

call the cops

No, someone lied on t'internet and ended up causing real world headaches for a legitimate breeder whose reputation in the real world was called into question.

Call BS. It worked. Problem solved.

 

[Rainmaker]

All done and dusted now, I've received a written apology and assurances it won't happen again, so no need to drag it out now. Thanks again for reading. Almost a shame this couldn't have been a more epic thread. Oh well... be careful for what you wish for etc.

 

[Rainmaker]

Rainmaker.
That is One Gorgeous pup, Good effort. I've not read all the thread but I want to know do you breed all the time or was it a one off ?

Thank you.

It was a one-off to keep a pup back for myself, for my own working use, malc. The other pups were placed with friends or sold at 'cost' to people selected as carefully as possible (you can't win them all lol). I did reject several potential buyers, for the record, too.

I won't completely exclude repeating the breeding in future though as the pups are already starting to throw themselves into work at just 6 months old (my Bruno LOVES his rats!...). If I can breed some more like this, I wouldn't complain! Hopefully they 'make the grade' on 'real' work when they're older.

I'm also quite chuffed that they have turned out exceptionally well temperamentally too. Very calm, stable, loving but quiet dogs who keep out of the way until you want them on hand. None of that "yappy Jack Russell/ankle biter syndrome".

Here's Bruno after a few rats at six months (the only pic I have, I'll have to take some proper ones). BTW his legs aren't that short, my mate took it on his mobile from above, hence the strange perspective.

 

[Rainmaker]

It looks like the photo was taken in a Caravan.. says it all about the people you sold the doggy to.

Actually to be fair they DO own a house and the husband is from farming stock. They just have land, and apparently also at least two trailers.

 

[Rainmaker]

It's the manner in which his post is written. It is full of emotion and comes across (quite rightfully) as very confrontational. However, what he should have done is responded with a less emotional response.

I work for an online Bingo site, if a member comes in and says they have a cold, within 15 minutes half of the room will all being dying of cancer or some very rare tropical disease. From that experience alone, I can confirm that the vast majority of people online talk utter rubbish to get people to give them attention. As is obviously the case here!

That's very true! But in your example, nobody except the person doing the complaining was affected. This was a rather different kettle of fish! Sorted now anyway, thankfully.