P4 Overheating Advice

[mindgam3]

I've got a laptop, its got a Pentium 4, 3.4Ghz processor.

I've been measuring the temperature recently and its idling at 60 degrees basically from a cold boot which surely is too hot to start with?

ANy sort of stress, eg running norton antivirus will take the temperature up to around 73+ degrees. Surely this cannot be healthy?

When gaming, the temps go up to around 75/76 degrees. Within the hour, negative CPU spikes occur, i.e the processor drops its speed, presumably to cool it down? This results in a performance drop in game making it unplayable for a short period of time. I know the P4's have their thermal control circuits which throttle the CPU at a certain temperature. However i've noticed with a program that this doesen't happen.

Instead, what i think is happening is the CPU is being slowed by the ACPI which controls when the laptop fans come on and cuts the processor speed when its running on batteries etc. ACPI also has a function to cut CPU speeds when it gets too hot, which I think is whats occuring, as when I run throttle watch, which monitors the P4's thermal control circuit (i think) and not the ACPI output, nothing happens in the throttling graph, even when these spikes occur.

I asked my vendor about this and they said these sort of temperatures are normal.

My question is this, if the computer in some shape or form is cutting the CPU speed, presumably because its too hot, surely that means either

a) the cpu is overheating
b) there's something wrong with the ACPI or whatever controls the CPU throttling

Anyone out there want to advise me as to whether this is normal and/or what the actual problem could be as i feel this could mean somethings seriously wrong and i need to take it up with the vendor, who doesen't believe anything is abnormal about this.

Should a £2500 laptop really be underperforming after a year? Is this accetable?

Cheers

 

[GuruJockStrap]

The CPU itself controls the throttling, nothing else.

All P4's will automatically reduce the clock speed in the event of the core temperature exceeding a certain level. In other words, to prevent it overheating and causing possible damage to the CPU.

My P4 Northood throttles at 68oC, but it varies from chip to chip.

Download and install a program called Throttlewatch. It'll show you CP useage and also when the CPU throttles. Use this along with a real time temp monitoring program like Speedfan or MBM5 to note the temperature that this occurs.

Edit: Actually, just noticed the frequency change on that screenshot. Looks like it is throttling at around 76oC.

Has it always done this or is it only just recently? Its definitely not normal for it to happen. The idea is the processor should be suitably cooled to prevent it reaching those sort of temps in the first place.

If its under warranty, take it back and demand they sort it out.

If not under warranty, it sounds like either the thermal paste between the heatsink and CPU needs reapplying or a build up of dust. Possibly a combination of the two. Just open it up and sort it out yourself if you can.

 

[mindgam3]

The CPU itself controls the throttling, nothing else.

All P4's will automatically reduce the clock speed in the event of the core temperature exceeding a certain level. In other words, to prevent it overheating and causing possible damage to the CPU.

My P4 Northood throttles at 68oC, but it varies from chip to chip.

Download and install a program called Throttlewatch. It'll show you CP useage and also when the CPU throttles. Use this along with a real time temp monitoring program like Speedfan or MBM5 to note the temperature that this occurs.

Edit: Actually, just noticed the frequency change on that screenshot. Looks like it is throttling at around 76oC.

Has it always done this or is it only just recently? Its definitely not normal for it to happen. The idea is the processor should be suitably cooled to prevent it reaching those sort of temps in the first place.

If its under warranty, take it back and demand they sort it out.

If not under warranty, it sounds like either the thermal paste between the heatsink and CPU needs reapplying or a build up of dust. Possibly a combination of the two. Just open it up and sort it out yourself if you can.

I'm not sure if its just happened recently as i've only just got the monitoring programs but the corresponding frequency drops seem to give lag type effects when playing games

The programs i'm using are mobilemeter - the only temp monitoring prrogram that works with my model - speedfan only gives temp in increments of 5 but gives the same readouts as mobilemonitor. I.e when mobilemeter hits 70, speedfan changes up from 65 to 70. I'm also using throttlewatch.

After reading a fair few intel docs i was fairly sure that there are two things that control the CPU frequency when it overheats.

1. Intels TCC (thermal control circuit) of which there are two versions - TM1 and TM2. I think i've got TM1.

2. ACPI - which in laptops controls when fans kick in and there speeds at temps set by the particular manufacturer (ACPI active cooling) and also decreases the CPU frequency when its on batteries to improve battery life. It also throttles the CPU at a certain critical temp.

Both TCC and the ACPI get there information from the same diode on the P4.

I've already run throttle watch which measures throttle response from intels TCC - TM1. It shows NO throttling when these CPU decreases occur. Which leads me to believe its the ACPI passive cooling kicking in. I don't know of any programs tht can measure ACPI throttling activity or any programs that can tell me what the ACPI critical temp is.

It is still under warranty and i''m taking it with the manufacturer at the moment. They say these temps are normal tho. Why would the CPU be throttling one way or another if these temps are normal?

In my opinion either:

a) its overheating
b) there's something wrong with the ACPI function
c) there's something wrong with the P4's TCC

Any ideas?

 

[AWPC]

From your graph am I right in thinking that the CPU is a 3.46EE @ 1066FSB? If so that is one of the hotest P4's around!

Possible solution to throttling issues.

In the laptop bios disable Intel Speedstep. Then when you have loaded the Windows desktop up go to: Display properties\screensaver\power & choose the home/office power scheme.

What you have just done is prevent the CPU from cutting voltage to increase batter life (obviously your battery life will be worse if you are not on mains power).

Next thing to do is also in the laptop bios disable the TM1 or TM2 function.

Then in Windows look for a startup loaded & or control panel utility which monitors/controls the CPU temps. What you need to look for is the setting which says what the CPU temps should reach before throttling kicks in. Adjust it a little as they are always set to come on either too low as almost every P4 does not give accurate temp readings so the mobo makers tend to take the cautious route and program diode readings which are more than the actual temp. To be fair to them the layout of the machine can make a huge difference. Most P4 laptops do throttle but there are ways around this.

If your feeling brave (and have no warranty also consider putting some artic silver5 on the CPU to give a further low temp boost.

You should definately get an additional cooler for the laptop as they nearly always overheat with a powerful CPU inside (especially with speedstep/tm disabled!). OCUK do these 2.

Akasa Aluminum Alloy Notebook Cooler (HS-012-AK)
- Powered directly from your notebook
- Stylish and strong aluminium alloy body
- Two USB ports, built-in for extra connections
- Ergonomic design for comfort
- Ultra quiet lo-noise fans with on/off switch
- Suitable for 15" notebooks or below
- Nonslip extended pads
- USB cable 490mm with blue-LED light
Full Specification
Price: £19.95 (£23.44 Including VAT at 17.5%)

Vantec LapCool 2 Notebook Cooler (LPC-305) (HS-002-VA)
Slim, sleek, and compact, the Vantec LapCool 2 is the ideal laptop accessory. Dual, adjustable fans and an aluminum faceplate keep your laptop cool while hide-able rubber pads hold the laptop securely above with bottom supports allowing you to set up the laptop at an incline or flat. The LapCool 2 also features a 4-port USB 2.0 hub, making the LapCool 2 perfect as a portable docking station. The LapCool 2 includes 2 storage compartments at its base, perfect for storing memory cards and cables. Easy to store, easy to carry, easy to use, the Vantec LapCool 2 is the easy choice for a laptop cooler.
Full Specification
Price: £24.95 (£29.32 Including VAT at 17.5%)

 

[ajgoodfellow]

It's probably a build up of dust

My old laptop (from a few years ago) had a 3.06Ghz P4 in it (fastest at the time!) and after a few months it would just cut out during any intensive activity. The laptop was also super hot to the touch

Turns out the heatsink was completely clogged full of dust - when that was removed it was working properly again. I'd get a can of compressed air and force it through the vents to dislodge the dust in the heatsink

I also tried a laptop cooler (the CoolerMaster Coolpad) which helped but didn't solve the problem

 

[mindgam3]

AWPC: thanks for the advice. Although it isn't a 3.46EE but a 3.40 with 800mhz bus. Does this make any difference to your suggestions? Looking at intels dics they suggest a max operating temp of 73.2? Also, my BIOS doesen't have an intel speedstep option. I've also looked to change the temperature at which the ACPI throttles but cannot find information on it anywhere

aj: I did suggest to the vendor that it might be a build up of dust but they didnt think so. I don't want to open her up and void the waranty.

 

[ajgoodfellow]

I didn't need to open mine up thanfully - I just blew air through the vents. This was what the vendor suggested in my case

When the warranty expired though I did take it apart to give it a proper clean. The heatsink/fan assembly was so badly designed it was no wonder that it clogged up!