Paedophile hunters

Soldato
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I remember watching Chris Hansen's "To catch a predator" on MSNBC a few years back and I was totally fascinated by it, there was something repeatably entertaining about watching an endless supply of seemingly innocent looking, inconspicuous family men overcome with warped, illegal carnal urges, walking headfirst into a hornets nest of reporters, setup by Paedophile hunter group "Perverted Justice"


At the time I remember thinking "Only in America" but now it seems this is becoming a bigger thing over here too, obviously we're a way off having the TV show - but there now seems to be a number of these groups springing up;

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-41281122/southampton-paedophile-hunter-sting-captured-on-video

The official word from "The Man" over the last few decades has generally been along the lines of "Please don't take part in vigilantism, because it gets in the way" but the police seem to have changed tact slightly and are, albeit rather reluctantly agreeing to work with paedophile hunters and use their evidence in court.

What do people think about this?

I'm in two minds, one part of me thinks it's bad, because it's only a matter of time until "some blokes down the pub" decide to go and beat up a local paediatric surgeon,
I also think it's a symptom of more and more cuts, not enough services to catch, treat, prosecute, deal with these people, so the community starts raging and starts to take matters into it's own hands.

But it could be a good idea if done properly, get the community to look after itself - I don't mean bored, unemployed, angry men chasing down suspected nonces, but more along the lines of officially offloading some of the detective work to the community, so that it can police itself, gather evidence - then present that to the police when a sufficient dossier has built up.

That said, the latter would require competence on the part of the government, and so far the government seems to utterly excel at ******** things up.
 
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There is something so satisfying about seeing them arrested on that show.... I didn't realise they were still making it!
 
There is something so satisfying about seeing them arrested on that show.... I didn't realise they were still making it!

Yeah me neither actually, I was looking for older clips as examples and discovered there were far newer ones, show has a different name, but it's identical in every way.
 
I think on one hand the vigilantes are doing a good thing, I don't think you can disagree less pedophiles in society can be a bad thing?

However, maybe the police should try and get involved with these vigilantes a little more, maybe help offer some sort of training/support. I imagine in some ways it puts the police in a bit of an awkward position as I'm sure they have plenty of operations and tactics that use which they can't just be telling every man and his dog about.
 
My opinion on this is they should be working with the police directly and not publicly outing them (innocent until proven guilty) and not posting these videos on [insert social media / video platform here] until these people are convicted.

This shouldn't be a form of 'entertainment'
 
Isnt there something in law about entrapment or somesuch? I could be well off the mark of course but i thought outside of specifically sanctioned police operations leading people on wasnt allowed.

Of course that being said, i do of course have no objection to a bit more publicity on being able to use the internet to catch crooks rather than the usual stream of "omgz ban the internet because terrorphiles".

And ofc less paedo's on the loose is only a good thing.
 
My opinion on this is they should be working with the police directly and not publicly outing them (innocent until proven guilty) and not posting these videos on [insert social media / video platform here] until these people are convicted.

This shouldn't be a form of 'entertainment'

I totally agree, from a moral perspective it shouldn't be a form of entertainment, but it's sort of impossible for it not to be, the very nature of watching desperate men with raging boners, walk headfirst into a meat grinder, is the keys to chuckle castle.

The social media aspect does worry me a bit, when you have "Big Andy" or whoever else, stuck in an echo chamber of rage - things can very quickly escalate and get out of control and the wrong person ends up getting killed, for example like what happened here; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...thought-he-was-a-paedophile-who-a6981756.html
 
Isnt there something in law about entrapment or somesuch? I could be well off the mark of course but i thought outside of specifically sanctioned police operations leading people on wasnt allowed.

Of course that being said, i do of course have no objection to a bit more publicity on being able to use the internet to catch crooks rather than the usual stream of "omgz ban the internet because terrorphiles".

And ofc less paedo's on the loose is only a good thing.

Yeah I think you're right, I remember with the American show - it was surrounded by controversy for a while, because in reality - it boiled down to entrapment, I could be wrong - but I'm pretty sure the actual conviction rate for "Catch a predator" was pretty low initially.
 
I've always taken the opinion, lets the cops deal with it, don't start vigilante mobs as they are really just as bad as each other.
 
Back when I was a kid was a guy round my way who took a shotgun "known" nonce. Turns out he was just an oddball, gay and recluse. Mob justice got what it wanted, innocent man spattered over outside of his home. I've no issue with these kind of vigilantes as long as they operate within the law and go by the principle of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Sadly, I doubt the mouth breathers up and down the land who "want to do something" about the pedophile epidemic are that level headed
 
I am really opposed to approaches like this and I believe this increases harm and potential risks for children. That might sound counter intuitive, but this is my reasoning:

Some people will have sexual urges towards children, many will not act on them. Some will not act on them at first. What help is there for people who clearly know what they feel is wrong and are resisting those urges?

We have such a social stigma that it's incredibly hard for these people to seek psychotherapy, counselling or any other preventative treatment. It's wrong to think that these people can't be rehabilitated and that they will always have these feeling or urges. I want to make it clear that treating this as a mental health issue doesn't excuse any subsequent crimes. Child sexual abuse ruins lives, which is why I think we need to put more efforts into preventing it happening in the first place rather than mopping up after these thoughts and feelings have escalated into behaviours. It's too late at this point. By having the social stigma and paedophile hunters that we do, people don't seek help and that's how thoughts becomes behaviours, which become offending. That directly affects the safety of children.

You then have the issue of people with mental disabilities or other mental health issues who do not have sexual urges but may have a low mental ability being framed as sexual offenders. This ruins lives also for people who are innocent. This is an inevitability of a paedophile hunter approach.

That's ignoring the fact that vigilantes will actively cause issues for convictions or investigations of people who do need prosecution.

In summary: lets have comprehensive preventative measures with easy access and tough enforcement by professionals.
 
Can't remember which force this was, might have been Northampton, but a senior officer was interviewed on the subject and stated that, due to the fact their efforts to tackle vigilantism had failed spectacularly they were now potentially looking to engage with the more professional groups. His general stance was that he'd prefer it didn't happen, but since he can't seem to stop it he can at least try to make use of some of the evidence, and I believe prosecutions have taken place based on evidence these groups have gathered.

Interesting stuff, but the precedent does worry me. Strictly speaking vigilante justice does have a habit of ending badly, and there's a question in relation to some of the more professional groups about whether their priorities are related to crime reduction or youtube hits.

You then have the issue of people with mental disabilities or other mental health issues who do not have sexual urges but may have a low mental ability being framed as sexual offenders. This ruins lives also for people who are innocent. This is an inevitability of a paedophile hunter approach.

This is an extremely valid point, if you empower vigilante groups you encourage wider participation. Now a minority of these groups might actually be extremely professional, ex cops, ex professionals or whatever. What you will end up with though is copy cats, and as you start widening the net for inclusion it's not going to be long before somebody comes out with "Dave down our street wears a Hello Kitty backpack and likes to talk to the local kids, he must be a nonce, let's fill him in". Turns out Dave has a learning difficulty and has the mental age of a 12 year old, he was just being friendly, but it's a bit late now.
 
I don't see an issue with it as long as there is no violence and everything is proven to be true - Which will never happen, so I'm against it. Sick and tired of false accusations, nobody on the internet reads before grabbing pitch forks...

Anyway, the real hardcore nonces won't be dumb enough to fall for it, they'll go deeper underground to get their kicks.
 
My opinion on this is they should be working with the police directly and not publicly outing them (innocent until proven guilty) and not posting these videos on [insert social media / video platform here] until these people are convicted.

This shouldn't be a form of 'entertainment'
What this man said. The entertainment factor essentially makes the watcher a voyeur and that doesn't sit very well with me.
 
I'm in two minds, one part of me thinks it's bad, because it's only a matter of time until "some blokes down the pub" decide to go and beat up a local paediatric surgeon,
I also think it's a symptom of more and more cuts, not enough services to catch, treat, prosecute, deal with these people, so the community starts raging and starts to take matters into it's own hands.

I've been in two minds about the whole thing as well. On one hand it is good that someone is trying to weed out these men/women who are arranging meet-ups with children.

But on the other hand, our justice system works on a case of innocent until proven guilty, and i feel it's only a matter of time until some poor innocent sod gets caught on the wrong side of this (wrong time/place), at the end of the day i can't see these vigilantes doing due diligence in checking that they actually have the right guy. Therefore i feel if they do want to let Joe public get involved in this sort of things then it should be licensed - the paedophile catchers would need to go through training in terms of what they can/cannot do, and how to collect credible evidence that can be used in court.
 
I have no problem with what they do except the final part should be having a copper at the point where he gets rumbled - then hand over all the evidence and haul him off to the cop shop for at least a bit of questioning. At least then it can be taken further or dropped. I could see that working with a couple of dedicated coppers overseeing these "private investigators"
 
My opinion on this is they should be working with the police directly and not publicly outing them (innocent until proven guilty) and not posting these videos on [insert social media / video platform here] until these people are convicted.

This shouldn't be a form of 'entertainment'


Maybe you should read the links posted.

"Figures obtained by the BBC show 11% of court cases in 2014 for the crime of meeting a child following sexual grooming used evidence from "hunters", rising to 44% in 2016"

We need more of this. "'Recruit paedophile hunters' says ex-CEOP boss Jim Gamble"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41350389
 
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