PC build for family computer

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 11:45

Hi, I'm considering building my first desktop PC and this forum seems to have a lot of very knowledgeable people. I'm a novice at this, so please bear with me!

I have a budget of around £600, although I could stretch to £700 if really necessary. I don't play games like BF4, just a bit of poker and chess, and my children are still young and only play Minecraft.

I've been reading lots of internet posts about the best processor for gaming versus home/office, and most suggest that Intel chips give faster CPU performance whereas AMD give better framrates for gaming (at least in budget builds versus (say) a Core i3 4330). Therefore since I'm not really gaming, it seems reasonable that I should go for an Intel CPU. My main requirements are for the PC to be as fast and snappy as possible, but it also needs to handle Minecraft to keep my kids happy. Will the HD 4600 integrated graphics on the i3 4330 be sufficient?

I'm not sure whether to save money and go for a Core i3 4330, or to go for an i5 (4670K?) which will probably improve performance. The i3 processors have hyperthreading, which I know isn't the same as having extra cores, but I'm wondering whether there's a big enough difference between the performance of the two processors to warrant paying the extra? Also can I do away with having to buy a discrete graphics card?

I don't do any video rendeering or 3D modelling or anything like that, but I often have 20 tabs or more open in my browser with other things going on in the background. Does that count as 'multi-tasking', and would therefore benefit from the hyperthreading in the i3? The i7's also have hyperthreading but they seems like overkill for my purposes, and is probably too expensive anyway.

I'll probably get a 250GB SSD (the Samsung 840 EVO is about £100) to increase speed, and I'm not sure about the RAM (probably 2x4gb Corsair Vengeance or similar?)

Oh I already have a power supply btw, and I think I can use the Windows 7 disc on one more computer, so I don't think I need to buy the OS, which will cut down a little on the overall cost.

Really appreciate any advice, this PC building business is a bit of a maze!

JonSmith · 12 Mar 2014 at 12:08

The i3 4330 with the cheapest motherboard should be fine for Minecraft.

20 tabs in firefox is nothing, I have driven two screens with a 1080p video on one and browsing on the other with a 1.3GHz dual core pentium laptop, so the i3 will be sufficient. The perception of speed will come from the SSD and the 8GB of RAM, which will make the system feel very fast.

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 12:34

Thank you for your reply, that's very helpful.

Should I go for 1600MHz RAM, or faster? I read something in a magazine suggesting that faster RAM will produce higher FPS in games if you're not using a discrete GPU?

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 12:37

I think your best bet would be a Kaveri build at this budget, The 7850k, (As overpriced as it currently is) is still a cracking CPU/GPU bundle for your needs.
Fast RAM is needed for more FPS with IGP's, yeah.

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 13:12

Thanks Martini, I'll probably go for 8gb of 2400MHz in that case.

Am I correct in thinking that the Kaveri 7850k is (very approximately) the AMD equivalent to the i3 4330?

I did consider going the AMD route, but the i3 4330 was (surprisingly) cheaper than the 7850k and seemed more suitable for gaming than multi-tasking. It does have the advantage that it can be overclocked, which must be a good thing. Although I have to admit I don't know how to do this (yet).

But these differences may be rather small, in which case presumably the 7850k would also give higher FPS in Minecraft too?

This is why I'm struggling to decide, there are too many reasonable options!

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 13:27

Hard to really give AMD/Intel equivalents.

At its very basic, an AMD 7850K stock performance can be, depending on the task ; Slower/Parity/Faster than the i3 4330.

With the gaming though, the 7850K's IGP is better than the HD4600 in the i3 4330, so regardless of the game you're playing, the 7850K should always be the better choice, strictly IGP VS IGP.

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 13:58

This is really useful, thank you.

Mmm, so if the speed of RAM and SSD are the primary factors affecting speed of things like logging in, browsing, opening/closing windows etc., then it basically shouldn't matter too much whether I go for the 4330 or the 7850K?

The AMD is more expensive, but it has 4 cores, it can be overclocked and will be better for basic gaming, and the 4330 is cheaper and (might) be a bit better for multi-tasking because of the hyperthreading. Then again it only has two cores. I also notice that the 4330 has 4MB of L3 cache which the 7850k doesn't. Not sure whether that will make a noticeable difference. Are AMD cores the 'same' as Intel cores? Or is that a stupid question?

Is it worth considering an Intel quad core like the i5 4670K, given my requirements? Or is it probably not worth it? Are Intel quad core processors noticeably quicker than dual core, and/or AMD quad core? I will be using the PC for work (nothing too CPU intensive, I mark exam papers online), so if an i5 would make a big difference to performance then I'd consider it. But by the sounds of it, it's the SSD and RAM that are most important, other things being equal. The 7850K is starting to look tempting, since it's not that much more expensive than the 4330...

Sorry for all the questions, really appreciate the help.

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:14

Multi-threading is a mixed bag, like I say, the i3 4330 and Kaveri will trade blows depending on the application (In pure CPU terms).

If an application could only use 2 threads, the i3 4330 would be faster than the Kaveri (Ignoring of course if you're playing a 2 threaded game, as the 7850k's IGP is much better than the HD4600, and at this "low" amount of GPU grunt, the differences in CPU performance won't translate into gaming performance differences), 3-4 threaded app's would be a mixed bag (I'd tend to put 3 threaded app's in the favour of the i3, 4 threaded in the favour of the Kaveri, but obviously depends upon the app itself.

As for the cores, Intels cores do far more work per clock, at a rough guess it's like 40% more per clock, and HT will add about 30% at most at a rough guess, that's without getting into AMD's module approach (Two cores per module, so the cores aren't full independent cores, they share an FPU, I think people put far too much onus on that, they're seen as 2 cores per module, they're used as 2 separate cores, it's somewhat irrelevant, except the performance of 2 cores in the module aren't quite as fast as two separate cores in 2 modules, So in a three threaded app, even if the app was perfect scaling, you'd get less scaling in the FX43/7850K with the third thread and then the forth, whereas with the i5 4670 for example, it'd scale as it should)

In CPU terms, the Kaveri 7850K and i3 4330 are pretty equal overall given all applications you may run.

But because you have some gaming, the Kaveri to me is the better option.

For an Intel quad? On CPU terms it'd be far better than the Kaveri regardless of what you're doing (From a performance numbers standpoint), but it still has a lesser IGP.

8GB 2400MHZ RAM, a 7850K, some FM2+ 88 board with a 250GB SSD as a family computer would be perfect to be honest.

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:39

Wow, most of that is WAY over my head, but I think I get the gist of it.

Martini1991 said:
For an Intel quad? On CPU terms it'd be far better than the Kaveri regardless of what you're doing (From a performance numbers standpoint), but it still has a lesser IGP.

Yes this is the key point, since I do need it to play minecraft and stuff like moshi monsters and bin weevils for the kids. I suspect that the HD4600 would manage this, but it won't compete with the 7850K.

8GB 2400MHZ RAM, a 7850K, some FM2+ 88 board with a 250GB SSD as a family computer would be perfect to be honest.

What about something like this: LINK REMOVED - apologies to moderator

It's a small case and micro ATX board, and I'd just use the stock cooler (unless you think I'd be better off buying one).

(I already have the power supply. I know it's massively overkill for this build, but it was only £64 and I thought I could use it again if I upgrade at some point).

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:41

Oops, just realised I put a 120GB SSD in there, I meant to choose the 250GB one.

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:43

That to me looks perfect, the HD4600 would probably handle everything fine (Having used a HD4600 on an i5 4670K to do 720p gaming when I was upgrading my GPU it was perfect, for like Batman Arkham Origins etc)

But I'd go Kaveri with the build, although I'd get it all from OCUK (Purely for the CS, having used many E-tailers, it's definitely second to one (Well, parity with Amazon) and worth any extra it may cost)

Not sure if that link's allowed really (Because of the competitor prices etc) so I'd remove it.

I'd buy an aftermarket cooler, as AMD coolers are pretty terrible

(They look nice and chunky, but they're ridiculously loud)

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:51

Oops, yes I forgot about that. I've deleted that link, thanks. Yes I like the idea of getting everything from one place anyway, so I'll probably order it all from OC.

Morfinel · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:51

This mob do not support 2400 ram and there is no point geting 2400 with such a low cpu, 1600 is way better value for money and make no difference over higher freq

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:53

Morfinel said:
This mob do not support 2400 ram and there is no point geting 2400 with such a low cpu, 1600 is way better value for money and make no difference over higher freq

The RAM frequency makes a difference for the IGP :confused:

the whole point of getting something like Kaveri.
At 2400MHZ the performance gain lessens, I'd run 2133MHZ with tighter timings.

And the support is "official", so you probably could do 2400MHZ.

If we're after "official" support, then ; http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-474-GI&groupid=701&catid=1903&subcat=2399

Either way, I don't know what the IMC's even officially rate themselves at anymore (Which frankly can make things someone moot, back in Thuban days, official support was 1333MHZ RAM, but boards would still say 2000MHZ etc)

Boomstick777 · 12 Mar 2014 at 14:59

Budget of £600?

What about something like this as a base? £500 Total, so £100 left to add anything else you would need..

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 15:05

No need in the Z87 board, B85 board for the SATA 3, 250GB SSD = 600 quid.

Far better all around system, but proper overkill for needs

Who am I kidding, if I had 600 pound budget, I'd probably be getting something like that.

I tried the saving money route

cerebralhigh · 12 Mar 2014 at 17:11

Boomstick, thanks for your reply. That's pretty amazing, I didn't think it would be possible to build an i5 PC with a graphics card within my budget. I already have the power supply and I could add an SSD to your list for a hundred quid and hit my budget exactly!

I need to have a think about how much I want to spend. Thanks very much for everybody's input, I should have saved a lot of time and come here straight away

Martini1991 · 12 Mar 2014 at 17:13

If you have the psu anyway, I'd consider winding it down to a b85 board, possible get a r9 270 but it's massive over kill

Boomstick777 · 12 Mar 2014 at 18:12

cerebralhigh said:
Boomstick, thanks for your reply. That's pretty amazing, I didn't think it would be possible to build an i5 PC with a graphics card within my budget. I already have the power supply and I could add an SSD to your list for a hundred quid and hit my budget exactly!

I need to have a think about how much I want to spend. Thanks very much for everybody's input, I should have saved a lot of time and come here straight away

No worries, glad to help. Good luck with your build.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 12 Mar 2014 at 18:30

The GTX750TI is overpriced for what it is. The GTX660 and R9 270 are faster,yet only cost a few quid more:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-038-KF&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=2379
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-245-MS&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1982

Even then all of the cards are OTT for Minecraft.

Moreover,for Minecraft even an AMD IGP would be fine.

One of my mates built two APU based home rigs for other people on a budget and these needed to run Minecraft. They are perfectly fine for Minecraft.

Minecraft is popular since it can run on all sorts of hardware.

This A10 5800K for around £90 would do the job:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-327-AM

If you want to go OTT with a graphics card then this HD7770 would be more than enough for around £70 with a newish CPU(Core i3,Pentium dual core,Athlon II X4 760K):

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-327-AM

Even that is OTT in most cases.

My mate is currently running THREE Minecraft servers(two with modpacks) on his A10 5800K based mini-ITX server.

Also regarding the PSU,the OEM is HEC who are spotty. The 500W version of the EVGA uses loads of CapXon capacitors:

http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/DSC_8332.jpg

Not a bad price for the PSU,but for a few quid more you can get better.