Perplexing Problem: Computer Causes Internet Loss.

InKursion · 23 Jan 2008 at 18:47

Hi all,

Recently (last 3 weeks or so) my OCuK 'Overclocked' machine has been giving me terrible grief on the Internet. After several hours of talking to my ISP (Pipex) and BT / BT technical support (they lease my line and are the manufacturers of my router), I have come up trumps. I have done all of the usual checking filters / plugging phoneline into master socket / resetting router / checking router settings etc.etc. The problem is extremely strange...

What happens is that at seemingly random intervals, my router will reset and lose connection to the Internet. After resetting, the router will start up fine and synchronize to my DSL line perfectly (this corresponds with what my ISP/BT have been saying... no line faults etc.), and will then attempt to dial-up to the Internet via my Ethernet line. The router will then fail to connect, completely restart, and then the entire process will begin again. The routers troubleshooting page tells me that 'PPP Server Connection Failed'- which at first inclined me to believe it was an exchange/line fault... but after weeks of testing and troubleshooting, I now believe differently.

NOTE: If I unplug the ethernet cable, turn on the router and then let it sync to the DSL line and fully power up, then it will connect to the Internet fine and will run perfectly with no drops 24/7-- during this time I can use the wireless feature (as is default with the router), but the Ethernet/USB connections do not work. If I plug the Ethernet cable in, then the router will either instantly-reset or will unpredictably reset some time later (this can vary from < 5 minutes to almost up to 9 hours).

At first I thought that this was a clear-cut issue with my router... it was overheating... the ethernet connection has failed... some interior component has failed... etc. Yet, after testing this on 2 separate routers that are of different make/manufacture... the exact same result occurs if I repeat the scenario. As of right now I am typing this from a laptop that is connected to my original router via the Ethernet cable, and there are no problems or crashes (and haven't been for quite a few hours now), which leads me to believe that it is my PC / networking card that causes the problem.

Any ideas?

Tech specs:

Windows Vista 64-bit
BT Voyager 2091 Ethernet/USB/Wireless Router
Abit Pro I-P35 motherboard
Realtek Family Gigabyte Network Interface Card (onboard).

Miscellenous information:

Around the same time the problem began, my ISP transferred my connection from an IPstream network to a Tiscali LLU Datastream network. However, this seems unrelated as the Internet itself does work fine (when the router allows it to dialup without PPP errors), and the line checks all turned up fine and dandy.

Also, I had installed a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer sound-card into the standard PCI-slot on my motherboard. Internet searching and various Forum browsing seems to suggest that the X-Fi sound-cards generally do not cause conflicts or problems with onboard NIC's (and my Device Manager shows no conflicts or incompatibilities).

I've isolated my problem down to being my machine; so what is the solution? I'm hesitant to reformat as I'd stand to lose 500Gb of information (I only have a 300Gb external storage device, and it is already full)- yet I do realize this may be the course of action if Vista has buggered something up.

Thanks for your help, sorry for the long read! Didn't want to miss anything out!

InKursion · 23 Jan 2008 at 19:32

Stranger complication has arisen:

After 3 hours of flawless use, the router began resetting again. Thus it seems it cannot be just my computer/network card set-up, and it must be created by something else (I was running the Internet in an isolated set-up with just the router providing network access to a laptop via Ethernet).

I really am clutching at straws here, totally baffled. Perhaps the Ethernet cable is broken/faulty? It's the only one I actually have... but then again, why would it transmit perfectly for up to 9 hours? Why does every router I have tested so far work fine when transmitting wireless, but then go into cardiac arrest when I try to use a wired connection? Nothing has changed in the internal wirings of my household since before the problem developed.

I'm going to run it just off a wireless adaptor stick for a slong as I can, just out of curiosity. As far as I know, it doesn't crash at all when the Ethernet cable / USB cables aren't used.

... At the end of the day I am really starting to suspect that BT / my ISP have been feeding me bull and making me go on a wild goosechase, checking all of my hardware/routers/software/drivers etc. when really it is in fact a problem with their line (likely originating from their migration of my line to a LLU service).

Any more suggestions? Thanks for your original response.

InKursion · 23 Jan 2008 at 21:40

Yes, two other routers, and both also 'spontaneously' restart when I use the Ethernet or wired connection. I've been browsing the Tiscali Forums (that's who I've been LLU'd over to, from Pipex), and lots of their members seem to have this constant disconnection problem. It seems to be almost standard protocol for most routers to restart/reset when they lose synchronisation with the DSL line / exchange servers. I did also think it was the router until I (much to my dismay) tried others and encountered the exact same problem.

I'm now surfing wirelessly, and the router hasn't reset since my last post (several hours ago). It's very strange... and I do question just how exactly the DSL line / Internet PPP authentication process doesn't fail just because there are no wires! I think I will try and get hold of another router over the weekend, just to double-check... it's so strange that it actually begs belief! I'm secretly hoping that this wireless connection will also drop / router will eventually reset... at least then it won't be so perplexing!

InKursion · 23 Jan 2008 at 22:44

Now, going in good faith and just assuming that I've tried to test the connection alternatively with two faulty routers (which is effectively what you are claiming)...

... Would it be worth going out to 'x' retailer this weekend and buying a new £80 Belkin ADSL router? Will go for a reputable brand, something trustworthy. I will however of course be entrusting this expenditure to your good technical knowledge- haha! It's either this last resort or tomorrow I phone my ISP's cancellation line and request my MAC code; in a desparate hope that moving line rental again will unblock the issue.

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 00:18

Re Wiring: I'm quite sure that the wiring in this house is good. A BT engineer came out and checked all of that around a year ago when he fitted a new terminal in my room, so everything is either relatively new or has been given the green light. Quite alarming to hear of a fried router/NIC!

Re Router: You do have a good point about the wireless signal dropping if it was a line fault- can't believe I illogically didn't see that, d'oh! All of the confusion and numerous fixes that I have tried have muddled my mind a bit... and yes, surely you must be right. If the wireless remains connected 24/7, and the Internet only encounters problems when Ethernet/USB is introduced- then it cannot be a line fault.

What actually happens (to ease any confusion) is this:

If router is started up from Power Off / unplugged with all cabling attached, it will simply go through the rotation of DSL syncing -> Power light turning green in correspondence -> Internet light remaining off -> Router restarts and attempts to resync / repower.

If the router is started up from Powr Off / unplugged with only the phone-line and the power lead attached, it will do the following: DSL syncing -> Power light turning green in correspondence to DSL picking up -> Internet light turns green 5-10 seconds later. This is how I am using my wireless at the moment... with the USB and Ethernet unplugged (thus their LED's turned off)- I can surf wirelessly without the Internet disconnecting, or the router restarting/DSL losing sync. NOTE: I can actually plug in the Ethernet lead after the Internet dials up, at which point I can surf from anywhere between 5 minutes to 5 hours. However, with the Ethernet lead plugged in, the router WILL reset... it is just seemingly random. Once the router restarts itself, I have to remove the Ethernet cable from the back before it will 'successfully' re-establish itself and gain connection to the Internet, otherwise it will just repeatedly go through the first cycle.

HOWEVER, if I leave the Ethernet cable in, whilst the router is restarting itself, there is a 1-2 minute time window in which I can access the routers control panel via the ethernet network. Because the router itself restarts/crashes when it fails to gain an Internet connection- I have a 'window' of time to access this hub home when the DSL/power are sync'd together (this time window I assume is when the router tries to automatically dial the Internet after gaining a stable DSL line). If I manually manage to navigate to the router control panel, then I can try to manually connect to my Internet by inputting my U/N and password. This is where I also find the Troubleshooting wizard that points to the PPP as the point of timeout / failure.

Thanks also for the heads up about Belkin. At the moment I am using a BT Voyager router, and have tried with my relatives' BT Home Hub (the router that also includes the internet phone fixture). I did have an old USB Speedtouch modem lying around, but it is locked to my previous ISP, and without the aid of the trusty Internet I cannot find any (cough) 'means' of unlocking it. Any specific recommendations? I use ADSL-- cable is not available here -- and need the basic ethernet/usb/wireless functionality. Budget will be up to around £80 (assuming of course that, after reading the above, you think the router is still to blame).

Thanks very much for your patience and time in reading this!

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 11:22

Thanks for the recommendation, will note that and see what I can do this weekend.

The Voyager does have an 'uptime counter', but as I have siad the router's control panel is only accessible when it is actually up (ergo: not constantly restarting). Whilst running on wireless only with no cables attached, it has been connected for nearly 18 hours... whereas the most I've ever seen with Ethernet attached is just shy of 9 hours before the resetting kicked in again. These figures are only an approximation; I leave the control panel tab open on my browser constantly, and check it periodically.

With the long symptoms that I described above, would you still suspect that the router is at fault?

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 13:29

Update:

The router is now resetting almost every hour whilst running on wireless-only. It seems that the Ethernet cable and wireless issues were purely coincedental... or perhaps even it could be that the Ethernet cabling makes the Internet drop 'faster' somehow. It could simply be that the router itself is completely knackered, and is crashing/resetting when it reaches a certain temperature/point, but it is a risky £60 quid to spend when most symptoms point back at my ISP! As I mentioned earlier, the Tisclai/Pipex Forums are rife with complaints from people with an almost identical problem. And, the Voyager router that I have has worked fine with no issues or complaints at all for nearly 2 years-- what are the chances of it developing a fault in October/December, just as dozens of other paying customers start experiencing the same issue?

As I've said before, the house electrics and phone-line are relatively new and don't appear to have any real issues. There is no noise on our line, and the ISP/BT officials say that they cannot see any line issues. Yet, after having ruled out 2-3 different routers, 2-3 different methods of connection, and 2 different machines and a laptop... the only thing I still can point to is the phone-line.

What plan of action should I take? I've been trying to deal patiently with my ISP for weeks, but they have constantly turned me away and told me to go and buy new expensive components/routers and then to come back. I'm fed up after spending 2 weeks of my time and effort to get back full-circle :/. Would migrating to a different ISP altogether (and hence having my phoneline go through a reallocation process) possibly solve the PPP problem? It's very much taking a shot in the dark... but I find no help or support from Pipex on this issue, and am very much at the end of my tether.

EDIT: Here is my electronic-based postulation:

The power-supply that I am currently using on my router was designed for a microKORG keyboard. I have phoned BT Voyager's phoneline and asked for the technical specifications for the modems default-packeged power-supply. The microKORG's power supply is 230V ~ 50Hz, and the originals matches this. However the mA values are different (the Voyagers is almost double the KORG's)- and so thus there is a difference. The microKORG's power-supply runs rather hot (all the rest of my plugs are cool, this PSU is hot to touch)- so perhaps possibly this overheating could cause some form of short / electrical dropout? Would the added power-demand / heat generated by wired inputs e.g. Ethernet/USB affect this? The router resets / connection drops much quicker when wired connections are used anyway... so this is my little theory! Any electronic buffs to comment?

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 16:28

Pipex just called me to inform me that after doing a line test (I have all of my hardware plugged into the inner-fascia engineers test socket) they have found a possible fault at my local exchange. It annoys me that I've gone through so much effort and expense these past 3 weeks, when it took them a 10 minute line-test to identify the fault and dispatch an engineer.

I'm slightly hopeful that this latest update will correct the problem for good, but I am always skeptical (skepticism is a hotly demanded skill among Pipex customers). I'm still slightly pessimistic, as even with a 'fixed' service, I'll now be on an unbundled Tiscali LLU network... burdened with one of the worst providers in the business.

I guess in the long-term I'll look to migrate to another ISP- my minimum contract length has been fulfilled - but in the meanwhile achieving a stable service with a faultless line is my top priority.

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 17:21

According to the Samknows website, there is no LLU operator presence at my local exchange (Source: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange.php?ecode=SSDBK)

Yet, trace-routes and Pipex engineers both inform me that I am on a Tiscali network now. Whenever I perform a /tracert command to a remote server, the connection will always bounce through a Tiscali-server before reaching the destination (previously this was Pipex owned servers). Perhaps it's simply just a matter of Sam Knows taking a while to update their site information : ).

However, their technicians did say over the phone that they had identified what they think is a fault at the local exchange, and an engineer is scheduled to be there at 11:00pm on January 26th. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until then, and keep my fingers crossed that whatever work he performs will solve the recurring problem.

I'm not sure if the power-supply is all that different, or dramatically under-par. It runs quite hot, but at the same time can maintain a power supply for upwards of 8-9 hours. Surely if it was incapable of delivering the power, it wouldn't last for such a long extended period? Sadly after searching, I have no other suitable power-supplies in my household, so it will mean a trip for that above-recommended Netgear router if you seriously suspect something to be alarmed of.

Thanks very much for your continued support here by the way, it is really appreciated. Other forums on the Internet have proven unresponsive.

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 18:33

Well the only concrete information I know on it is that I have been moved from an IPStream network to Tiscali's Datastream. I don't know what that technically implies; generally speaking the Pipex technical support team are very sly about it- and refer to it normally as "work being done on your local exchange"... I had to push myself and ask intrusive questions to even find that limited amount.

As said before, I'll give it the 2-3 days for their engineer to do his thing, then I'll look to the router/power-supply again as the possible culprit.

Thanks again.

InKursion · 24 Jan 2008 at 22:40

Thanks for the explanation. I have no idea really, although I do know that there has been quite a lot of publicity / common knowledge floating around that Pipex members are slowly being moved over to Tiscali LLU. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that Sam Knows are just a little behind in their updating. What ramifications does this have on my service? Who knows... I'm migrating away from HMS Crapcali as soon as my connection is fixed anyway (I was actually on Tiscali before I went to Pipex- how I moaned when I heard the news of a buyout!)

Will update this thread after Saturday, in hope that the engineer has fixed it all up magically.

InKursion · 25 Jan 2008 at 15:13

timking said:
have you tried a different power socket, if possible run an extension from a socket that you know works 24/7 without issue such as one with your pc on/ tv/video etc? also, when you changeed routers, did you use the correct power supplies/adapters that came with them and not anything else?

Yes, I did try a different socket from my 'usual' computer socket when I had to plug the router into a different mains in order to connect it to the engineers' test socket. The problem was still replicated there.

When I tried the other routers, I also used their pre-packaged power supplies, mainly because the one that I use on my own BT Voyager 2091 router doesn't fit the jack on the other routers (I'm guessing obviously because of different specifications and power usage).

Good thought though!

InKursion · 27 Jan 2008 at 19:01

A small update:

After the 11:30am Saturday 'appointment', where the BT Engineer visited my local exchange... I was convinced the problem was solved. I had great uninterrupted connectivity for over 24 hours- a first in weeks! Not a single drop, speeds were fine, everything was working. I was confirmedly on a Tiscali connection (tracerts went through Tiscali's servers)- but that didn't bother me... surfing bliss!

However, now the problem has started again

. I can connect to the Internet if I let the router sync and connect without the Ethernet/USB cables plugged in, but if I leave them in whilst it is trying to establish a connection... the same reset cycle occurs for hours. Now, normally this would just scream that the router is broken... but how is it broken if it can hold a connection perfectly for 24 hours-- coincedentally at the same time that an engineer performs work on my line?

I'm now having an engineer come to my house for an internal wiring check on Wednesday. I am genuinely baffled! Anyone have anymore ideas? I suppose it wouldn't hurt to go buy that Netgear router after all...