Phono sockets for subs

[lsg1r]

I'm currently in the process of ordering wall sockets for audio equipment and have a question on whether this is possible or not.

Basically getting sockets (4mm banana socket qed type) to run from point a to point b using 4mm cable (undecided on brand etc).

Now during my hunt for bits I keep seeing a phono sockets specifically for subs but I don't really feel like paying out for 2 of these if I can avoid it.

So can you run a sub off a normal 4mm banana socket and speaker cable used to connect up the normal speaker sockets?

Now obviously I need an adapter cable (or make one) to change a phono to banana plug but would the cable be able to take the load from the sub.

I'm thinking it can work as my older and very cheap surround sound used the same cable type for all the speakers and the sub but I thought I would check with people who may have more experience in this field than me
The sub is going to be a powered one if that makes any difference.

TIA

 

[badbob]

Speaker cable is high level.
RCA is low level

You can run a sub from high level but it's usually the combined left & right speaker outputs. In a HT you use the LFE .1, with is a single RCA cable.

Just fit female single RCA housing on the wall near your sub.

 

[lsg1r]

That all just confused the hell out of me

However......

I'm going to go complete dumb bloke mode now as I'm not fully up on all the techy stuff when it comes to wiring up speakers (the rest I'm pretty much ok with)

Bare with me on this:

- speakers have a red and black socket
- wall sockets have a red and black socket
- amp has red and black socket for left and right speaker channels (total of 4 sockets)

So, red to red, black to black all the way through for l/r speakers, pretty simple that bit.

You can run a sub from high level but it's usually the combined left & right speaker outputs.

Now if I understood the above correctly that means I should be ok to do
- sub channel out (single phono)
- red socket in
- red socket out
- sub in (single phono - labelled av sub in - theres also the l/r channel inputs but they're not needed)
assuming I have the right cables/fitments etc.

 

[badbob]

Almost right however you're getting confused between high and low level, and the connector types.
High level is speaker cable, and speaker binding posts
Low level is RCA cables, with RCA connectors. Also for composite and component video, and digital coaxial audio. For composite, coaxial and component make sure the cables and plates are 75ohm.

So if you want it routed around your room- depending how tidy you want it (personally I wouldn't bother with front three speakers and subwoofer as they go along the same wall with the amp so pushed away) I'd just get side & surrounds speaker connecting posts then the speaker cable wired through the floorboards. But if you do want everything tidy

Four of these, for side left & right, rear left & right

Three of these, for left, right & center. Get them wired up for both runs, you might want to bi-amp speakers later.

A mono RCA version of this, for the subwoofer.

You could have plates for both on speaker side and amp side. Or have a run from your amplifier going into the floor across the room to the plates.

If you want multi-room you might want HDMI plates also, or perhaps satellite & RF for freeview. Maybe even RJ45 for LAN, and phone lines. And main sockets.

 

[lsg1r]

I'm only doing a 2 speaker plus sub affair so I'm doing the cabling to make it neater, plus its going half way round the room.

The sockets I planned on using are/were (4 of) the qed wm11 (they have the screw type fittings at the back as I can't solder) - 2 (in double din if possible) at amp end and 2 at speakers. They use 4mm banana sockets up front.

The idea I had was to use one of the pairs for say the left speaker and the one of the second pair of connectors to connect to the sub.

I know I would need to change the connector on the end of the cable to fit into the wall sockets.

Bearing in mind that all the cable does is transfer the audio do I have to have the specific type of connector as to get ones to fit its like £40 extra plus cable!!

The RJ45/sat/aerial is already covered, thats a piece of cake, you can get a lovely modular setup from screwfix (that can't be competition) that will do nicely

 

[Caged]

I'd be inclined to use Speakons on the wall plates then just make up a short cable to connect to the back of your speaker. It would look neater (one connector), and locks in.

 

[badbob]

The idea I had was to use one of the pairs for say the left speaker and the one of the second pair of connectors to connect to the sub.

Speakers are high level, sub woofer is low level (unless you use the high level out) with a av pre-amp or AV amp use the subwoofer LFE out not the speaker outputs for the sub

 

[lsg1r]

I'd be inclined to use Speakons on the wall plates then just make up a short cable to connect to the back of your speaker. It would look neater (one connector), and locks in.

Never heard of them.

Speakers are high level, sub woofer is low level (unless you use the high level out) with a av pre-amp or AV amp use the subwoofer LFE out not the speaker outputs for the sub

OK either I'm getting confused or you're not getting what I'm on about (probably both as it was late).

Lets try again - remember I'm dumb bloke

Amp has outputs for 2 speakers (2 pairs of clamp fittings) plus a sub output (phono) - so total of 5 outputs (simplified here)

Speakers have a pair of clamp fittings on each speaker (so 2 inputs per speaker)

Sub has a choice of either a single input (phono style) or it can use cable run offs from speakers (not using this option)

On wall A I have 2 sets of the sockets shown above (for simple terms 8 banana sockets) for cables from amp.

On wall B I have another 2 sets of sockets (8 banana) which would then connect to speakers.

Out of those 8 sockets I had the idea of using a total of 4 banana sockets for the l/r speakers (2 banana per 2 clamps on speakers).

I was then going to use a single cable from the sub to a single banana socket, this would then run to the output side where I would have a single cable running to sub.
In total with the l/r speakers 5 banana sockets would have been used to tie in with the 5 outputs/inputs on the amp/speakers/sub accordingly.

-------------------------

Alternatively if this makes it easier to answer/understand. Do I need a specific type of cable to run a sub off of or can I just use standard speaker cable?

 

[Caged]

Never heard of them.

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/203_324141/Speakon®_Lockable_Loudspeaker_Connector_group.aspx

 

[BlackBat]

I think I get the jist of what you want to do, however as already has been pointed out, passive speakers require a high level input. This as far as you're concerned means you can use two wires in pararallel as the signal is not prone to interference.
The active sub however, requires a low level input similiar to a CD player. A low level signal is more prone to interference, that is why the cable and sockets are different. The cable itself has an inner wire insulated (used for the +) around this is the outer wire acting as a shield (used for the -). If you run two wires in parallel it would be advised to have an outer sheathing of wire earthed (similiar to a scart lead).

 

[badbob]

The active sub however, requires a low level input similiar to a CD player.

Not so, a subwoofer will be able to accept low and high level inputs, depending on the sub.. However in a AV system you'll use the low level input (LFE) but on hi-fi you can use low level or high level,

 

[BlackBat]

Thought the OP stated (in his own words) that he wanted to use the sub actively not passively.

Sub has a choice of either a single input (phono style) or it can use cable run offs from speakers (not using this option)

However, yes of course if you were to use the sub passively then you could use the same cable as for a speaker.

 

[badbob]

It doesn't matter if you use high level or low level it's not running passively, the internal amp is being used. The power usage on the Hi-Fi amp is negligable it's just attenuated level prior to the sub's amp.

 

[lsg1r]

Now I'm getting you, I can use it but its better to use the right type of cable/socket to reduce the noise etc.

Anyways I've come across an alternative socket (I spent my time hunting for other options) which I hadn't found before from a group called konexia.

With this option I can get a faceplate and then add in the parts I need (link to av options, they network etc too).
It looks like I can get the dedicated phono socket (just got to figure out if the rear connection is a socket or not ). The speaker sockets are better option too being that they're.

Assuming I'm understanding everything else all I would need are the 2 binding posts and phono for each faceplate .

 

[BlackBat]

Possibly.

 

[BlackBat]

The rear socket of the modules starting with K-RCA are phono and so you connect them with an RCA (phono) to RCA (phono) cable (nice and easy). What you have to consider is would it be better to put two of each binding posts on a single faceplate for bi-amping and then use a seperate faceplate for the sub.
If you just want to stick to one pair of speaker cables then two RCA (phono) modules, four binding post (or banana jack - take your pick) modules, two 4 port faceplates (K-WSQ-01) and one pack of blank inserts (K-BLA-01) would do the trick.

 

[badbob]

If you're serious about quality you'd ditch face plates altogether, instead have a single run of cables from your amp to the speakers, you can do this with letter box type holes in the wall (with the bristles) With several plates there are multiple connections, which will degrade quality.

 

[lsg1r]

The rear socket of the modules starting with K-RCA are phono and so you connect them with an RCA (phono) to RCA (phono) cable (nice and easy). What you have to consider is would it be better to put two of each binding posts on a single faceplate for bi-amping and then use a seperate faceplate for the sub.

Not likely to bi-amp with current arrangement so not really a concern, I could if I wanted always run the cable just in case sort of thing and then it would just be case of changing the fitments etc.

If you just want to stick to one pair of speaker cables then two RCA (phono) modules, four binding post (or banana jack - take your pick) modules, two 4 port faceplates (K-WSQ-01) and one pack of blank inserts (K-BLA-01) would do the trick.

That was what I was thinking for each end

If you're serious about quality you'd ditch face plates altogether, instead have a single run of cables from your amp to the speakers, you can do this with letter box type holes in the wall (with the bristles) With several plates there are multiple connections, which will degrade quality.

I'm not that serious about quality and I doubt I would even notice the drop to be honest. Obviously I want to limit the drop but I also want a nicer finish than those bristle type holes.

Thanks everyone I can now go and order

 

[Confused]

Ignoring the high/low level bits (which does also mean they're not compatible), in basic terms, the red & black for the speakers are combined into the single, twin-core RCA cable for the sub.

This is why you can't use the red & black banana plugs for your sub.