Phorm get Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk

Is this allowed under the data protection act. Then they are going to send you targetted advertising....so they are giving you email address away also.....lol
 
So many loopholes from what im reading. We track you but we don't collect information?.

You can opt out but you have to keep a cookie and when that is deleted your automatically opted back in!. Big Brother indeed.

I think people like myself, who does use one of the aforementioned companies should really complain. Once these people get one foot in the door who knows what else they will be allowed to do. I know people will say google have been doing this for years but they certainly dont do it in the manner in which this Russian based firm do.
 
I'm surprised this hasn't generated more outrage and discussion on here! Anyone interested/upset by this should write to the Information Commissioner (see here) and ask for clarification.

So far as I can see, any customer has the right to give written notice to their ISP (or any other relevant data controller) forbidding them to sell, trade, give away or otherwise share or disclose personal data. That includes surfing habits.

Once in receipt of this (recorded delivery) notice, the ISP should be legally bound by the Data Protection Act to not share your data. Because the planned "code" in place of your personal details does not constitute truly aggregated data, the DPA should apply in full. I've written to the ICO about this as have many people, and they are apparently now launching a full investigation as to the legality of this move by the ISPs and Phorm.

Get writing, and cross your fingers.
 
After posting earlier i rang up Virgin which really was pointless. Their call centre is Becogent in Airdrie outside Glasgow where I once had the misfortune to work and I wasn't surprised that I had to explain to her what Phorm was and what it meant for the customer.

Suffice to say i have written a letter to their head office also I will be contacting the ICO too.

It was interesting to read on there with regards the europeans commissions view with IP addresses and trackable ID's stating that in essence they are the same thing which of course would mean that this breaches the data protection act. We will have to of course wait to see if this is the case.

I do really like my cable broadband and dont ever wish to go adsl again so it really angers me that they have done this without A/ asking me and B/ failing to even make its customers aware of this deal.

One more thing is i agree with Rainmaker with suprise that this has not been discussed more.
 
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The direct link to the Information Commissioner's enquiry form is HERE. Do get writing, as the more of us who express outrage (politely, it has to be said - it's not the IC's fault!) and ask for this to be investigated, the more urgently the IC is likely to treat the matter.

I have already written clearly asking for guidance, asking whether an ISP (or any corporate body) has the right to track and sell/share data about customers in this way. I already know the answer, but it's always nice to have a legal body like the ICO agree with you in writing ;)

I also asked whether this would constitute an illegal WIRE TAP under the Wireless Telegraphy Act and the Telecommunications Act. THAT would be an interesting angle!

Do remember, when you all write in, that you should ask the ICO for permission to share their reply with others in a public forum. The LAST people you want to annoy regarding sharing data without permission is the ICO... it'd be a bit like posting on the Inland Revenue (HMRC) forum to brag you don't pay tax and use red diesel :eek::p:D
 
*Moangroan* said:
Is this allowed under the data protection act. Then they are going to send you targetted advertising....so they are giving you email address away also.....lol
Click to expand...

They dont send you them via email they just decide which banner to display based on your past history
 
They dont give out any personal information, no name, no contact information, nothing like that. All phorm will know is that user-abc123 has visted website abc.com and bbc.co.uk. And from that info it will be able to send targeted ads to user-abc123 when he vists websites with supported ad banners.
 
Dist said:
They dont give out any personal information, no name, no contact information, nothing like that. All phorm will know is that user-abc123 has visted website abc.com and bbc.co.uk. And from that info it will be able to send targeted ads to user-abc123 when he vists websites with supported ad banners.
Click to expand...

Which would be great (*cough*), until user-abc123's dad surfs some pr0n at 2am, and his 11 year old daughter is doing some work at 8am the next evening before bed... and Phorm decides to target some advertising...

Plus, the whole 'user code' in place of real details thing is absolute rubbish. It's fully traceable back to the end user and isn't truly aggregated data (which makes it illegal under the Data Protection Act). Don't believe me? Just do a Google for "AOL personal data" and see what happened when AOL accidentally allowed "codes" to be joined back up to user's data and it got released...

This is a BAD thing, and I can't see any argument FOR implementing it - especially seeing how expensive cable is to start with.
 
If the 11 year old daughter goes to a site that would show directed advertising of a mature nature, then that website could show mature ads anyway. If a website says no mature ads, then phorm wouldnt be able to use mature ads on that site, even if all the user does vist is porn websits.

And just because problems with the user code thing happened with other companys, dont sudenly jump to the conclusion that itll happen this time.
 
Dist said:
If the 11 year old daughter goes to a site that would show directed advertising of a mature nature, then that website could show mature ads anyway. If a website says no mature ads, then phorm wouldnt be able to use mature ads on that site, even if all the user does vist is porn websits.

And just because problems with the user code thing happened with other companys, dont sudenly jump to the conclusion that itll happen this time.
Click to expand...


That's a fair point (the part about not putting mature ads on non-mature sites)... but I do believe I read about them having independent pop-up ads based on previous browsing history. That's what I was referring to.

Either way, logging surfing and downloading data doesn't sit right with me no matter how they dress it up. Sorry. As for not consulting users and not asking for consent, and then forcing them to opt-out on a regular basis? Clearly a breach of The Data Protection Act AND European legislation = illegal (and wrong).

I was actually looking to MOVE HOUSE and join VM on their VIP - just to get on the new 50 meg down 5 meg up DOCSIS 3 broadband when it was rolled out. I still have the emails and paperwork about it pending the move and activation. After this? HA! All I can say is, I'm glad I never actually moved yet. I wouldn't take a service where the ISP MONITORS, LOGS and then SELLS my data to third parties against my will even if they gave it to me for FREE.

I'll stick to my 24mbps connection from UK Online (22mbps SYNC); knowing they're not pawing my surfing habits and selling my private data onto third parties against my consent.
 
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As far as im aware, its not in breach of the data protection act. People seem to be throwing that bit of legal stuff arround far to much these days. The data protection act is about how information about a living person is stored. The best way i can think of for ISPs to see what website the users are visiting, is by the DNS servers, so that when someone trys to connect to a website, the DNS servers provided by the ISP resolve the domain to the ip of the website, all they have to do now, is log that request for the direct ad program.

If they did it like this, i cant see how it will be in breach of the data protection act, as they are NOT giving out personal information. As for the european legislation, please find me specificaly what makes it illegal, because so far it seems compleatly legal.

If this is the case by the way, a simple change of DNS servers to ones that dont send the data to direct ad companys will solve the problem. I daubt the ISPs will do anything more complex to get this data for the direct ad company, because they cant spy on a users activitys without a court order, and ISPs wouldnt risk loosing hundreds/thousands of customers because of a scandal like that.
 
Some of you are totally missing the point here. This is not just another google ad type system. This explicity reads what you read and type, processes it and serves the ads.

Every page you read, every webmail email you read, every form box you type into is sent to servers in china for processing. Even your credit card numbers you type are sent down the wire as the blurb says "any sequence of 3 or more numbers are filtered out so that we don't read credit card numbers". This obviously indicates that what you type into forms (including credit card numbers) is sent to Chinese servers but not processed. I repeat though: IS sent to chinese servers.

Seriously. Read this for a basic introduction to the issue:

http://www.badphorm.co.uk

Read the following for more indepth technical info:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/phorm_roundup/

and read the comments posted on those pages.

This is not another ad system like google which serves you ads based on your search engine search words. This is a distinct invasion of your privacy and those ISPs should be severely punished for ever thinking about doing this.
 
marc2003 said:
^what use are dns requests to an advertising company? you can't target advertising based on the domain name. :confused:

here's some speculation on how it will really work.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/phorm_documents/
Click to expand...

If you know the domain names of the sites a person vists, it wouldnt be hard to create an automated program to visit them domain and record what the content of those sites is, so that i knows what sort of ads to serve you.

The badphorm site seems compleatly agaisnt badphorm and bias, and doesnt realy provide a neutral point of view so im not going to read a great deal into that.
 
Dist, based on the available info so far, it certainly seems like a bad thing. The Information Commissioner's Office has already said that based on what they know about the proposed system they're investigating with a view to taking action.

You don't seem at all worried by this data collection, in fact you seem to positively support it in a way. Straight up question, no digs intended... do you happen to work for one of the companies involved?
 
I dont support it, im just agaisnt people complaining and saying its illegal, its breaking blah blah blah laws etc... when not all the facts are known yet, very little about how they will track and manager the surfing habits has been released, most of what websites seem to be publishing is best guesses and wild accusations.

Personaly i think if the ISPs do go through with this, it wont be long before people know exactly how to circumvent the way they obtain their data, or the ISPs get taken to court and forced to stop for some reason. I just dont see this as a big problem, at least not right now anyway.
 
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