php/mysql - webhosts use old versions?

toString · 22 Nov 2006 at 15:45

Sorry for the seemingly noob thread....
I was reading into php5 and it's OO uses. Which I like the look of, coming from java taught schooling..
This is all very good for me as I have XAMP installed:
MySQL 5.0.24a
PHP 5.1.6

However, I notice that hosts (well mine and a couple of other well known ones) are using things like:

PHP version 4.4.2
MySQL version 4.1.21-standard

Why are they 'behind', so to speak?

daz · 22 Nov 2006 at 15:50

PHP 4.x and MySQL 4.x are both incredibly stable and well tested, as well as being compatible with all the scripts that people like to use.

PHP5 and MySQL 5 are great for developers and the like though, but they're not mature enough yet for the majority. And there are incompatibility problems with various popular scripts.

robmiller · 22 Nov 2006 at 15:58

PHP 5 is two major revisions in... how on earth is that not stable enough?

Adz · 22 Nov 2006 at 15:59

Of course if your hosting provider is who I think it is (from memory) then they can arrange to migrate you to a PHP5 server free of charge.

PHP4 is simply safer/simpler for the masses at present due to possible incompatabilities.

Daniel · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:08

I have a virtual private server (VPS) and I am running mysql 5.0.24-standard and php 4.4.4

I tried php5 but for some reason GD - Image verification text looked very blurry so I went back to php 4.4.4

I tried a few different versions and mysql 5.0.24-standard and php 4.4.4 seemed to be the best combination.

Dan

Dj_Jestar · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:11

The bluriness will be down to the GD library, irrespective of php version

celliott · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:18

Your host certainly isnt doing a good job of managing their servers if PHP 4.4.2 is still installed, 4.4.4 is the latest and addresses security holes.

At the moment not many people demand PHP5 hosting and because of some incompatability it causes with scripts, it makes more sense to run PHP4.

robmiller · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:21

What are all these super critical incompatibilities people are talking about?

Dj_Jestar · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:23

E_STRICT by the sounds of it

toString · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:24

Adz said:
Of course if your hosting provider is who I think it is (from memory) then they can arrange to migrate you to a PHP5 server free of charge.

PHP4 is simply safer/simpler for the masses at present due to possible incompatabilities.

Looks like you're right, I checked their forum

However I'm a bit weary of doing such a thing, as my main site is basically just a (slightly old) vB installation with mods, and if there are incompatibilities, I'm bound to find them

Just seems like a shame though, all this work into php, and it's not really moving forward where it counts.

riddlermarc · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:26

robmiller said:
PHP 5 is two major revisions in... how on earth is that not stable enough?

Slightly OT but relevant - we have some servers running still running NT4 here at work, the reason being is that one of the CMS applications we use will only co-operate with the version of SQL Server that won't run on 2003 Server.. currently I'm involved in replacing the CMS app with an entirely web-based system but it's a mare

Back on topic

D), sometimes apps, scripts etc just aren't up to running on a newer version - there are some changes from MySQL4.x to 5.

Daniel · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:27

Dj_Jestar said:
The bluriness will be down to the GD library, irrespective of php version

Ah, right. So I needed a newer GD library then?

May of been me but I also found that my forum seemed slower under php5.

Dan

Adz · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:39

robmiller said:
What are all these super critical incompatibilities people are talking about?

There were initially issues with (for instance) Zend Optimizer, Ioncube, Eaccelerator, etc but you're right, very few remain now, just people running code which they've been running since PHP3 which "always worked fine before". You can see from a commercial perspective why a forced mass migration would be a bad thing. However, there's no harm in giving the customer the choice as many webhosts do.

toString · 22 Nov 2006 at 16:46

One other thing I forgot to bring up, it seems MySQL 5 supports stored procedures?
I was under the impression this was one of the reasons why many people preferred SQL Server?

robmiller · 22 Nov 2006 at 17:04

Adz said:
There were initially issues with (for instance) Zend Optimizer, Ioncube, Eaccelerator, etc but you're right, very few remain now, just people running code which they've been running since PHP3 which "always worked fine before". You can see from a commercial perspective why a forced mass migration would be a bad thing. However, there's no harm in giving the customer the choice as many webhosts do.

I dunno, part of me thinks it would be good to give people a bit of a kick up the arse and get them to upgrade, but obviously I can see why that's not a great decision from a business point-of-view

Showing my ignorance here—how easy is it to do what Dreamhost does, and offer the choice between 4 and 5 on a per-domain basis? Does cPanel offer this?

Adz · 22 Nov 2006 at 17:21

robmiller said:
I dunno, part of me thinks it would be good to give people a bit of a kick up the arse and get them to upgrade, but obviously I can see why that's not a great decision from a business point-of-view

Showing my ignorance here—how easy is it to do what Dreamhost does, and offer the choice between 4 and 5 on a per-domain basis? Does cPanel offer this?

cPanel doesn't, neither does Plesk, Ensim or DA but our new bespoke system (under development - 6 month ETA) does.

Beansprout · 22 Nov 2006 at 17:55

I think most folk haven't bothered with PHP5 because not that many people need it - ie, it's quite a specialised area still.

For example, we run PHP5 - but about 0.00005 people actually have a need for it. That said it's also generated sales from people with atrocious web design companies who've told them they need PHP5, so I suppose it's got some sort of use...

We've been running PHP 4 & 5 side-by-side on a totally-flexible bases for a while..... .htaccess files' AddType command is nice and simple. No control panel integration, though

- could probably set something up if necessary however.

Running older versions (of the same major version!) of common things is generally a bad idea....iirc there were some nasty-ish exploits for recent versions of PHP. I've seen folk who come from places running ancient versions of PHP, Apache and MySQL and you just have to wonder 'whyyy!'

Dj_Jestar · 23 Nov 2006 at 02:09

PHP5's object model was redesigned completely and is infinitely superior to PHP4's. That's the biggest advantage, for both hosts (less resources) and users/developers (less load times, and easier to use)