Plasma 24pfs
- Thread starter SHANE34
- Start date
Agreed, though I believe the PZ700 series doesnt accept 24fps like the PZ70 does. Though serious techies will point out that Panasonics deal with 24fps using 3:2 pulldown and will stutter. Only Pioneers do it properly but they are expensive and generally 720P.
I have a 42" Panasonic PZ70 and am very happy with it (even at 24fps).
I have a 42" Panasonic PZ70 and am very happy with it (even at 24fps).
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Soldato
IMO the Pioneers are easily the best screens, but they are only 720p. Do you have to have 1080p and how far are you going to be away from the screen?
Samsung P96 series plasma. It's within your budget (50" screen) as well.
Soldato
Are you sure about the 3:2 pulldown... That doesnt make any sence at all. All Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players support 3:2 pulldown in their standard 1080p@60hz output, the whole point of 24fps support is to avoid 3:2. Just putting a 3:2 pulldown convertor into the TV makes absolutely no sense at all, and I cant believe panasonic would stoop that low on what is a very fine TV.
Surprised they havent updated then 700's to 24p input though, I guess this time round the 70's beat the 700's... Better contrast, same number of colour graduations, and 24p suport. I guess when I decide its time for an upgrade you just saved me a mistake.. I would have assumed that the 70/700's were like the 60/600's. Almost the same TV but the 600's had SD card slots and improved speakers, design, and build quality.
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Pretty sure about the pulldown, it was confirmed by a Panasonic tech according to the AV forums, after a fairly hefty and heated debate on the PZ70 owners thread. Only Pioneers do it properly by running at 72fps (3x24). Panasonics run at 60?. I have run a 24fps signal through my PZ70 and I didnt notice any judder TBH, though I supose I was to busy enjoying the film in HD to bother looking for faults like a true AV enthusiast might.
Main difference between the 70 & 700 is as you said, better sound and build quality on the 700 and better claimed contrast etc on the 70. the 24fps support was added on the 70 at the last minute apparently (early online manuals didnt mention it till release). Oh and my 70 has an SD slot, though I've enver tried using it.
For the price the 70 is a cracking buy IMO @ £1,000 though I have my sound going through a Onkyo 605 AV reciever and the look of the side speakers does not offend me. I'm not a proper AV enthusiast I just look into things as & when I decide its time for an upgrade so best confirm the above
Mart
Main difference between the 70 & 700 is as you said, better sound and build quality on the 700 and better claimed contrast etc on the 70. the 24fps support was added on the 70 at the last minute apparently (early online manuals didnt mention it till release). Oh and my 70 has an SD slot, though I've enver tried using it.
For the price the 70 is a cracking buy IMO @ £1,000 though I have my sound going through a Onkyo 605 AV reciever and the look of the side speakers does not offend me. I'm not a proper AV enthusiast I just look into things as & when I decide its time for an upgrade so best confirm the above
Mart
They do not
Soldato
There are all sorts of different things said about Panny's 24p input. Some claim its a standard 2:3 pulldown, but others say that although it still judders its not as bad as the pulldown from a BD or HD-DVD player outputting at 60hz. It wouldnt surprise me if they are doing some jiggery pokery to display at 50 or 60hz without using the 'standard' 2:3 pulldown techniques.
Who knows... via the VGA input you can get the screen to sync up at higher than 60hz, so it seem the panel should be capable of 72hz refresh rates.
As far as I can tell Panny's handling of 24p is worse than Pioneers which most people rate as near perfect (although a few have claimed to see an occasional judder), but still better than using a BluRay players 60hz output.
Happy that the format war is still going on.. I wont buy HD'DVD or BluRay until there is a clear winner, so my 720p Panny, with 50/60hz inputs will do me find for my DVD collection.
Who knows... via the VGA input you can get the screen to sync up at higher than 60hz, so it seem the panel should be capable of 72hz refresh rates.
As far as I can tell Panny's handling of 24p is worse than Pioneers which most people rate as near perfect (although a few have claimed to see an occasional judder), but still better than using a BluRay players 60hz output.
Happy that the format war is still going on.. I wont buy HD'DVD or BluRay until there is a clear winner, so my 720p Panny, with 50/60hz inputs will do me find for my DVD collection.
I dont think their will ever be a clear winner regards the new formats.
Their too established now. Ideas of dual format discs are being dropped too.
Get over it mate, i reckon your gonna have to buy both and by the time proper dual playback machines arrive well youl be able to buy two seperate machines still cheaper anyways.
PS3 is a great way of getting to enjoy proper Hi Def particulary if youd like a bit of gaming also.
Their too established now. Ideas of dual format discs are being dropped too.
Get over it mate, i reckon your gonna have to buy both and by the time proper dual playback machines arrive well youl be able to buy two seperate machines still cheaper anyways.
PS3 is a great way of getting to enjoy proper Hi Def particulary if youd like a bit of gaming also.
Soldato
The 24p on the Pioneers is impressive but you either get noise or if you put the movie mode on (to lose the noise) you get judder. The panny Solution is also flawed and you get a different kind of judder, defi not as bad as 60hz but not as smooth as the Pioneer setup.
Funnily my age old plasma that can only do 60hz with HDCP does a stunning 24p over VGA so with the aid of naughty box i can get 24p from my PS3/HD-DVD etc. Not sure if the consumer Pannys will take 24 over VGA but may be something to look at ?
Funnily my age old plasma that can only do 60hz with HDCP does a stunning 24p over VGA so with the aid of naughty box i can get 24p from my PS3/HD-DVD etc. Not sure if the consumer Pannys will take 24 over VGA but may be something to look at ?
Soldato
Two players isnt a viable option, Samsung have a sub £500 Blu Ray Profile 1.1 player, with full HD-DVD support including all the menu's and special functions, LG also have a fully featured dual format player which is about to be released, which again is BD Profile 1.1.
Im not convinced a 'dual format' world will ever succeed. Look at SACD and DVD-A. Lack of a single unified format has pretty much made a mockery of both these formats, with regular CD's continueing to be the 'Standard' for quality audio.
Without a unified HD Format, be it HD-DVD or Blu-Ray I believe that DVD will remain the defacto standard for Video resale. On the otherhand, if there is a single HD format, with players ranging from £100 to £2000 depending if you want a 'consumer' product or an 'enthusiats' model then it will continue to play second fiddle to SD -DVD.
I like gaming, but I game on my PC, so dont really have a great deal of interest in owning a PS3. (Also they need to resolve the loading time for Blu-Ray... I cant be bothered to wait several minutes loading.. I want to slot in a disk press play and off we go.)
Your forgetting the studio support is already their it never really was with HD Audio Only formats. Selective titles shall we say...
Also HDTV is becoming standard, when prices fall which will happen then people will gradually move over to see HD formats on their HD displays.
Look how the HDTV market has exploded in the last 2 years and its not going to stop as prices keep falling.
Give it a year and im sure the £150 or so player will appear.
As for Blu Ray yes some discs take a long time to boot...
Even top end players are slower than a PS3 that i can gurantee you and a good PC is the fastest.
Also HDTV is becoming standard, when prices fall which will happen then people will gradually move over to see HD formats on their HD displays.
Look how the HDTV market has exploded in the last 2 years and its not going to stop as prices keep falling.
Give it a year and im sure the £150 or so player will appear.
As for Blu Ray yes some discs take a long time to boot...
Even top end players are slower than a PS3 that i can gurantee you and a good PC is the fastest.
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Soldato
I like the comparison on the AvForums to Diesel & Petrol for cars. Both will co-exist quality happily. 
Both sides seem to be backing away from the "We're going to win" attitude. So I'm betting that dual format will be the future and that dual-format players will become the standard. Comparisons to DVD-A and SACD are a bit pointless as they are hi-fi formats that appeal to very few people, especially as people are moving more towards low-fi MP3. However there are millions of people with HDTVs now and so a huge potential market.
EDIT: Going back to the original OP. How far are you going to sit from the TV? If it's anything further than 5 feet then 1080p is a complete waste of time. If it were me i'd get the 42" Pioneer. That way you can display 1080p 24Hz inputs at 720p 24Hz perfectly.
Both sides seem to be backing away from the "We're going to win" attitude. So I'm betting that dual format will be the future and that dual-format players will become the standard. Comparisons to DVD-A and SACD are a bit pointless as they are hi-fi formats that appeal to very few people, especially as people are moving more towards low-fi MP3. However there are millions of people with HDTVs now and so a huge potential market.
EDIT: Going back to the original OP. How far are you going to sit from the TV? If it's anything further than 5 feet then 1080p is a complete waste of time. If it were me i'd get the 42" Pioneer. That way you can display 1080p 24Hz inputs at 720p 24Hz perfectly.
Soldato
I dont think the car analogy works at all, I drive a diesel, I can take the car to anywhere I wish to go, and be confident that I will find fuel.
However if I buy a Blu-Ray player, I cant watch Transformers, Shrek3, its unlikely we'll see Star Trek titles.. as Paramount/Dreamworks has been bribed by M$ to go HD-DVD only.
But if I buy a HD-DVD player, I there are a large number of Blu-Ray exclusive titles I cant play.
Sticking with Cars.. Why should I be forced to buy a Petrol car, because I fancy a drive to london, and a diesel because I fancy a drive to scotland. Next thing we know I have to buy a Natural Gas powered car for a drive to wales, and a coal powered car to drive to newcastle.
Hopefully the next generation HD players (blu ray, or hd-dvd wont have me waiting 3-5 minutes just to start playing a movie
). If all these delays are just for fancy menus and extras, there should be a way to setup the player to skip it all, and jump straight into the movie etc. (But then thats another pet hate of mine... Why do so many DVD's have commericals on the start... and Anti piracy adds, often with the DVD controls locked out forcing you to watch... Makes me want to pirate just to skip them. )
However if I buy a Blu-Ray player, I cant watch Transformers, Shrek3, its unlikely we'll see Star Trek titles.. as Paramount/Dreamworks has been bribed by M$ to go HD-DVD only.
But if I buy a HD-DVD player, I there are a large number of Blu-Ray exclusive titles I cant play.
Sticking with Cars.. Why should I be forced to buy a Petrol car, because I fancy a drive to london, and a diesel because I fancy a drive to scotland. Next thing we know I have to buy a Natural Gas powered car for a drive to wales, and a coal powered car to drive to newcastle.
Hopefully the next generation HD players (blu ray, or hd-dvd wont have me waiting 3-5 minutes just to start playing a movie
). If all these delays are just for fancy menus and extras, there should be a way to setup the player to skip it all, and jump straight into the movie etc. (But then thats another pet hate of mine... Why do so many DVD's have commericals on the start... and Anti piracy adds, often with the DVD controls locked out forcing you to watch... Makes me want to pirate just to skip them. )
Caporegime
not to the marketing men
we're forgetting here that this is an industry that developed many combinations of the phrase "HD Ready" to try and fool customers into buying sets that werent properly HD Ready
to the marketing men 24p compatible means that it plays it, not that it plays it back with the true cinematic feel to which it was intended.
1080p is not all about the higher res over 720p, its 1:1 that makes such a difference. Ive noticed this instantly. The 50" theory isnt correct either. Sharper zero scaling and now of course 24p, this is a big move forward over DVD.
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Cors gees give it a rest.....
Star Wars took about 5 years to appear on DVD? the format survived... PS3 games dont play on a 360 each survives. Guess what make your choice, or dont even. Its you thats missing on some amazing high def. Its the way it is like it or not.
Star Wars took about 5 years to appear on DVD? the format survived... PS3 games dont play on a 360 each survives. Guess what make your choice, or dont even. Its you thats missing on some amazing high def. Its the way it is like it or not.
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