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Plastic makes me a sad panda

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lil old me, May 28, 2010.

  1. Lil old me

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,524

    Location: Norfolk

    I cant really find any evidence that it is any more processed than meat is. Of course it is not perfect, nothing is perfect. However it is clearly better than growing meat industrially.

    This simply wasnt my experience. Obviously it doesnt need to be cooked as long as real chicken, perhaps this is where you went wrong? Of course there IS a difference, but not a massive one in my opinion.

    Thats up to you.
     
  2. craptakular

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 7, 2007

    Posts: 10,549

    Location: Hobart, Tasmania

    It's good that people are taking an environmental view.

    Landfill is a hugely scientific and profitable business.

    You simply don't dig a whole and chuck rubbish in it, there is way more to it.

    Soil erosion is "real" but it's unlikely to effect landfills as once they are capped they usually have vegetation grown over the top and stuff.
     
  3. jed_lether

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 4, 2008

    Posts: 48

  4. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,144

    It is grown in a huge vat of oxygenated nutrional broth and then shaped to the right dimensions, flavour is also added if necessary. As opposed to decent steak, which is cut from a cow, grilled for 8 minutes and served with a bit of peppercorn sauce. Quron is 100% manufactured so of course it is going to be more processed than meat. Do you even know how it produced?
     
  5. King85

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 30, 2008

    Posts: 1,905

    Location: Solihull, West Mids

    Exactly, ignorance is bliss.
     
  6. Davies_M

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 16, 2009

    Posts: 1,315

    Location: South Wales/USA

    Rather than attack, why not inform him? In earlier posts he said he wasn't too clued up on Quorn so cut him some slack.

    I agree with what he's doing, as should a lot of people in the developed worlds. We're terribly wasteful and can't sustain it. Instead people would rather ignore it and carry on.

    Ignorance is bliss.
     
  7. alex24

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 1, 2008

    Posts: 10,704

    Location: Chelmsford, UK

    Surely the best solution is to recycle as much as is possible. That way we can change our wasteful ways more slowly, and have less of an environmental impact. How recyclable are all types of plastic? I imagine almost anything can be recycled with the right facilities.
     
  8. craig3000

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 25, 2009

    Posts: 1,398

    On the subject of plastic bags at supermarkets, I used to work at a newsagents for a short stint. A new sort of rule came in that we couldn't give out plastic bags unless the customer was purchasing heavy items or a lot of items. This was both for environmental and cost issues.

    The amount of people that went nuts when I said I couldn't give them a bag was unbelievable it was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen, I could have slapped everyone of them and taken satisfaction and this is why the environment is a mess because the older generations just take things for granted.

    For example somebody would buy a card, birthday, christmas w/e, they would ask me for a bag, a bag!!!!!!!!!!! For a bit of card, now either these people weren't carrying anything in which case a card is easily held in ones hands or they had bags in which case they should put the bloody card in them. The excuses I would hear like 'oh my wife will see the card' really? Come on it can't be that difficult to sneak a card into the house, bunch of muppets.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2010
  9. Klo

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 20, 2005

    Posts: 3,993

    Location: South East

    I love some people have taken offence at what he's said, as though he was personally criticising them.

    Fair play to him, if everyone did it there would be an effect, but of course they'll always be the people who desperately trying to cling to the old ways of life.
     
  10. MotherMayI

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 9, 2007

    Posts: 2,410

    I sigh every time people bring out the "LOL IM TOO MUCH OF A MAN TO NOT EAT MEAT" style arguments. I do however also agree that the moderation of this forum is a joke.

    As for Quorn - Yes, it is definitely more processed than most meat, it has to be by its nature. It's still a very valid alternative though for people who feel they need that meaty feeling in their meals, but want to go vegetarian. I cooked for a load of mates last night, all the 'chicken' was Quorn - They didnt even notice. Personally, I'm a vegetarian, but I stay pretty clear of fake meat products - I prefer true vegetarian meals, and if I wanted to eat meat, I would just eat meat, not a fake stand in.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2010
  11. Jonny69

    Man of Honour

    Joined: May 3, 2004

    Posts: 17,657

    Location: Kapitalist Republik of Surrey

    Hahahah, the usual suspects spouting the usual uninformed or misinformed garbage :D

    The energy and resources in a paper bag are higher than those that go into a plastic bag. Although a plastic one won't biodegrade or oxo-degrade unless it has certain additives it is the better option, environmentally. If it's re-used then it's even better again. Use it as a binbag and it's even better.

    Sadly true. There are scores of lifecycle analyses backing this up.

    I removed your signing comment since I'm not a hippie but probably know a lot more about the subject than most :)
     
  12. Jonny69

    Man of Honour

    Joined: May 3, 2004

    Posts: 17,657

    Location: Kapitalist Republik of Surrey

    It's different with different types of plastic but most degrade slightly and become weaker each time they are recycled. PET recycles quite readily, for example, but others (like any thermoset) don't at all.

    A lot of plastics in products aren't pure enough to recycle easily. They are loaded up with talc and minerals to change the way they feel. It's quite common for the energy and added resources required to recycle for it to not be environmentally viable to do so. In this case it's better to burn it with energy recovery, grind it up and use it as road filler, a lower grade material etc.
     
  13. snowdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 27, 2005

    Posts: 13,542

    Location: Netherlands

    It's not about too much of a man, it's about delicious food.
    I'll believe it when I see ( errrr taste) it, non real meat tasting like KFC chicken.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2010
  14. cdcopyman

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 944

    i eat paper , off topic i know but hey! :)
     
  15. jas72

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2006

    Posts: 10,153

    Location: Belgium land of chocolate

  16. Lil old me

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,524

    Location: Norfolk

    First off thanks for all the replies so far, nice to see weve got a discussion going now :)

    I wasnt aware that this is how its produced, no. However i probably could have guessed, i mean im not naive enough to think it grows in those nice ham flavoured circles on a tree somewhere :p I am struggling to see a major problem with this though. Indeed pollution will be created by processing the quorn in a factory but I seriously doubt it would parallel the pollution created by a cow in its life time, if you factor in all the fertilisers used to grow the food it eats etc etc.

    In my opinion, merely seeing meat production as the 'end product' ie what it takes to turn living cow into a tasty steak, rather than what had to happen to get that cow to that state in the first place, completely negates the vast majority of the damage done in the production/growing process. Yes a steak does not require a factory, however it does require a calf to be born and raised and fed and watered and grazed and finally to be processed in some manner (albeit a much less chemical process driven one). It also takes much much longer to grow a cow than it does to produce a fungus, thus increasing the damage caused. Furthermore, this ignores any animal welfare issues completely, something which does not bother me as much as the environmental damage, but surely something which must be considered.

    Of course this is ONE PART of the solution but it cannot be a solution it itself. Whenever plastics are recycled there is a toxic waste product left behind. The size of this varies between plastics, however it can seldom be completely eradicated. Surely it would be better not to make the thing in the first place, then we wouldnt need to recycle it! Also we all have to admit that sometimes we simply throw stuff that can be recycled away, into the rubbish, into the landfill. However if we changed our habits,for example we took a flask rather than buying bottled water, then we would negate this issue. Finally, this also ignores plastics which cannot be recycled, or which require such specialized facilities that they are recyclable in theory, but seldom in practice. Increase the facilities i hear you say. Well yes, but this might simply not be economically feasible and would interfere with peoples' lives far more than a habit change. Simply changing habits would be far cheaper, fairer and more effective.



    This is interesting, thanks. Again it reiterates what I have been saying really. The culture and habits of people need to change to make a difference. A paper bag (even if it was less wasteful than plastic) merely falls into the "use once, throw away" culture which does so much damage. We need to reuse or not use at all, rather than finding different ways of consuming too much. Unbleached Cotton shopping bags all the way!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  17. Psymonkee

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 24, 2004

    Posts: 13,747

    Location: St.Andrews

    Surely if you factor in all the fertilisers used to grow food for the cow/bull etc then to have a fair comparison you must also account for the same fertilisers used to grow food for the people who work in the Quorn factory?

    (Yeah really really picky but hey, I'm bored :D)
     
  18. King85

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 30, 2008

    Posts: 1,905

    Location: Solihull, West Mids

    Personally it's about what i'm putting into my body.
     
  19. duc999

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 10, 2003

    Posts: 2,140

    If you look at it logically then theres no point whatsoever in Quorn.

    If you want something that looks and tastes like meat then eat meat.

    We've already established that both processes are wastefully inefficient in production of the final product.

    If you don't want to eat meat then don't eat it.

    Therefore a single meat producing process thus halving the environmental impact. Simples.

    Proof that hippies are killing the planet by their unnatural urges. :p
     
  20. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 27,774

    But how else will we store our hydrofluoric acid?


    I have reduced my meat consumption and increased vegetable consumption by growing my own. I was planning to eliminate meat anyway for ethical reasons, but needing to reduce protein intake prompted me to do it. Don't have to worry about prions with vegetables either. :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010