Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

I weighed myself for the first time in a few weeks on Monday and that was somewhat disturbing... I blame the Christmas Period mainly though :-)

I don't have the challenge with sweets in the car (Not far enough from home to work to worry about it) But those charity boxes in the entrance hall do pose a risk!
 
Yeah, that's my downfall. Especially when there's around 600 calories per bag.

Given i really like my Hoka trail shoes, i ordered a pair of their road shoes in the December sales. Went to try them on last night and they're a really narrow fit so will need to return them.

Really wish i lived in Leeds! Runners Need have 2 stores in Manchester but each only seem to have around 3 pairs in stock, whereas every pair i look at online is showing as in Stock at their Leeds branch.

I'm trying to zero in on a brand/range that really works for me but feels like i can only do that by switching around so i'm keen to try something else new again.

Historically i've had

Mizuno Wave Inspire
Asics Gel Kayano
Adidas Ultraboost ST
Asics GT2000
On Cloudflyer
Brooks Ghost 12

I like the fit of the Brooks, but i'm a little disappointed with how long they've lasted. Feels like i've not had them very long and getting some aches in my feet (although they're showing at 300 miles on Strava)

I've just bought a pair of Saucony Peregrines which feel lovely for lighter trails so i might take a look at their road shoes. It's just a hassle with ordering online and having to mess around with returns.
 
300 miles is about the expected life of a running shoe while maintain good protection. After that that is a large drop in performance of the sole, so you will feel impacts a little more. It is OK to run in them some as long as the sole is still fairly even, but I would avoid doing longer runs or quality/faster runs on shoes over 300miles.
 
Yeah, think it just feels like they're not that old, but as i run more often it's going to be every 4 months or so rather than every 6 months and i need to get used to that.

Especially with being quite heavy, they're taking much more of a pounding than you skinny folk!
 
garnett said:
Thanks for that excellent combo of info and motivation!

Yes, I'm looking around for training programs and that's pretty much what I'm finding.

I have no other pressing fitness targets, but currently it's looking like I'll run 2 or 3 times in the week, working on increasing pace due to the fixed time cap I have. I'll see how I go but might try to do some circuit training and weights sessions in between the running days. Then I'll use Parkrun as the basis for my longer run, increasing the distance each Saturday, and hopefully squeeze in a short run on Sundays.
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Your best way to improve your run performance will simply be to run more, and keep increasing your run volume ina sensible way (slow increases, have a recovery week once a month). If you get too tired form running but have time to exereice more swimming and cycling are your best bet to loose weight and increase CV fitness.


Ignore the run cutoff. The last thing you want to do is try to purposely increase running pace. You will get injured or burned out. Running pace is just a product of your training, fitness and weight. As you get better at running you will get faster for the same effort. And the effort for most running should be easy and sustainable.
 
Marvt74 said:
Yeah, think it just feels like they're not that old, but as i run more often it's going to be every 4 months or so rather than every 6 months and i need to get used to that.

Especially with being quite heavy, they're taking much more of a pounding than you skinny folk!
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When I git peak Marathon traing at 80-90+ miles a week runnign start to feel expensive the rate the shoes need replacing.

It is fine to use them for shorter easier runs when you feel good. If you starting getting niggles then I would switch to newer shoes for a few days until the legs feel better.

It also depends a bit on your footstike. I land well on the ball/front of the foot so as the shoe looses the ability to absorb shock I feel the consequences less as the foot and leg positon better absorbs impact than heal strikers.
 
The Darkness said:
Don't try to run faster, just run as often as you can and make nearly all your miles feel easy. Speed will come naturally.
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D.P. said:
Your best way to improve your run performance will simply be to run more, and keep increasing your run volume ina sensible way (slow increases, have a recovery week once a month). If you get too tired form running but have time to exereice more swimming and cycling are your best bet to loose weight and increase CV fitness.


Ignore the run cutoff. The last thing you want to do is try to purposely increase running pace. You will get injured or burned out. Running pace is just a product of your training, fitness and weight. As you get better at running you will get faster for the same effort. And the effort for most running should be easy and sustainable.
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Thanks both.

Given I have 30 mins a day, I can't increase my time running, so the only way I can see for my training to progress is to run faster in that set time. Running at the same pace in 3 months time as the pace I am currently running at seems counterintuitive.

I have a HRM and intend/hope to see an improvement in speed attainable at a certain %mhr.
 
What you will probably find is that as you run for that 30 mins at a given heart rate, the distance/speed will increase. So although you won't feel any different with regard to breathing and so on, the speed will increase without you needing to do anything (if that makes sense)

Pushing faster will put everything under more stress and potentially open you up for more injury etc.
 
Ian_Eb said:
What you will probably find is that as you run for that 30 mins at a given heart rate, the distance/speed will increase. So although you won't feel any different with regard to breathing and so on, the speed will increase without you needing to do anything (if that makes sense)

Pushing faster will put everything under more stress and potentially open you up for more injury etc.
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Exactly. As you run more, two things happen.

Firstly your aerobic system improves, so your heart doesn't have to work so hard to push oxygen to your mussels. This means you will feel easier when you run the same pace because your heart won't be pumping as hard. Looking at it the other way, if you maintain the same exertion your speed will increase.

Secondly, as you run more your body becomes more efficient at the mechanics of running. Your muscles work out how to minimise energy requirements to run efficiently. You get quicker.

Just run more at the same exertion and you will get quicker. Try to push every run and you will get injured and/or not enjoy it and quit fairly soon.

It's the most common running mistake people make.
 
Ian_Eb said:
What you will probably find is that as you run for that 30 mins at a given heart rate, the distance/speed will increase. So although you won't feel any different with regard to breathing and so on, the speed will increase without you needing to do anything (if that makes sense)

Pushing faster will put everything under more stress and potentially open you up for more injury etc.
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Yeah, thanks. That's what I was thinking. I'm just trying to find my starting point/base level.

Did 30 mins @ 10kmh and it was pretty heavy-going. Averaged about 92%MHR.

So I guess I'll just try and repeat that/go a bit slower.

Edit: @The Darkness - sorry. I was writing while you posted. What sort of %MHR would you suggest running at (bearing in mind that, if I'm cautious about injuries, because I can't run for long, I could possibly run at a slightly higher %MHR than might be recommended for runners who have more time to run)?
 
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The general rule is that you should be able to hold a conversation during running.

if you can’t you’re running too hard.
 
[/QUOTE]Edit: @The Darkness - sorry. I was writing while you posted. What sort of %MHR would you suggest running at (bearing in mind that, if I'm cautious about injuries, because I can't run for long, I could possibly run at a slightly higher %MHR than might be recommended for runners who have more time to run)?[/QUOTE]

Try to keep in zone 2 (ie <70% HR reserve). Most of my easy runs will be at the lower end of zone 2 - around 60-65% HRR.

I can use my own experience of marathon training as an example of how pace/exertion increases. I ran Chelmsford marathon just over two years ago, mostly in heart rate zone 4, at around 8 min miles (so just under 3 hrs 30). I tried so hard during the training (3-4 runs/week) and gave it all during the marathon and I could not see any way I could run faster.

I then increased my mileage by running every day, with 6 out of 7 of those runs being in zone 2 or less and then one day of speed work per week. I found that over a few months my speed increased dramatically. I can now run a recovery run (ie zone 1) at my previous marathon pace (8min/mile) - effectively a 30 beats per minute drop in heart rate for the same pace. My marathon pace went up to 6.50/mile and I knocked nearly half an hour of my marathon time, hitting a 2hr 59 time earlier this year and qualifying for London on good for age.

I am a firm believer in this approach :)

Cheers
 
Some top advice here, nothing much to add but to recap:
  • If you run almost all your runs within about HR Zone 2 < 70% HR reserve you will see big increases in aerobic fitness over time and your pace will get faster. This is a slow process, if it wasn't then everyone would be running 2:30 marathons.
  • Running faster in training doesn't make you run faster in a race. You will merely greatly increase your chances of injury, over training, or plain mental exhaustion.
  • Faster running has a time and place, but it is not for beginners and needs to be used carefully to avoid injuries. IT is also pointless if you are not developing base aerobic fitness through a high volume of easy running.

@garnett
With your specific scenario there is nothing you can safely do to force a faster pace within a short time period. Trying to run more days a week and longer is your best goal. The increase has to be steady, so by the time you get to your race you may still not be at a sufficient fitness level, but that is the consequence of deciding to do a difficult race with only a few months training without a recent running background training. Train towards your race, but don;t worry about paces and cut-offs. Either you will be fit and fast enough by following a safe and steady training regime or you wont be and will get a DQ, but so what, You need to be thinking longer term. Keep building the fitness level and have new goal races end of the summer, next autumn, next spring. Keep slowly building.

  • You mentioned you can only run a few days a week, why is that, is it not possible to run during the week? There are always options to run before work, during lunch, run commute to work etc.
  • You talked about circuit training and weights. Use this time to run instead. Early on you may not be able to run 5-6 days a week so some cross-training initially is fine, but later on if you are time constrained then focus only on the running. Nothing else makes you better at running than more running, until you reach some extremely high training loads (consistent 15hours a week).
  • Your trail half marathon could take 3-4 hours depending on the terrain. If your max run is 30 minutes your chances of finishing are low. You have to find a way to get a long run at least every 2 weeks at around 1.5 to 2 hours. Also realize that aerobic benefits are maximized by training runs between 1hour and 2 hours. That is hard to achieve at a beginners level but it is something to work towards.
 
garnett said:
Yeah, thanks. That's what I was thinking. I'm just trying to find my starting point/base level.

Did 30 mins @ 10kmh and it was pretty heavy-going. Averaged about 92%MHR.

So I guess I'll just try and repeat that/go a bit slower.

Edit: @The Darkness - sorry. I was writing while you posted. What sort of %MHR would you suggest running at (bearing in mind that, if I'm cautious about injuries, because I can't run for long, I could possibly run at a slightly higher %MHR than might be recommended for runners who have more time to run)?
Click to expand...


Just to reiterate, running at a high HR really wont make you a faster runner In fact, you will also risk reducing endurance by missing out on important adaptions that only occur at lower aerobic stress.

Running in upper Zone 3/lower zone 4 instead of soemthign easier in Zone 2 wont confer any real training benefits. What does help is a limited amount of training in upper zone 4 and zone 5 - interval training. But this is highly specific and advanced training workouts that are dangerous to do until your body has strengthened bones and joints. It is also pointless if you don;t have a high aerobic base built by many months of easy aerobic running. At the most this would be about 10-20% run volume, 1 day a week (2 if you are really advanced targeting < 2:50 marathons).

If you were an experienced running with years of high volume training, and due to a change in circumstances you had way less time on your hands you could moderately increase the amount of intensity to try and reduce some aerobic losses. But it isn't a long term sustainable solution to maintain performance. E.g., when i am on vacation or have a load of work schedules I might run shorter and faster for a few weeks.

Otherwise you have to accept that your run performance is dictated by the time you commit to it. And your body weight.


There is also a little difference between a 5km runner and a half-marathon/marathon runner. So someone dedicated to 5km and less might do slightly more high intensity workouts, but they still require a large volume of easy running in zone 2 (<70% HRR), even down to 1 mile racers. They don't run at a higher HRR but might aim for 2 speed workouts a week instead of 1 and the longest run is shorter (but 5k runners till do plenty of long runs up to 20km as it is the best way to build aerobic fitness).
 
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@D.P. Since you're around!

I've been running with a local group, they do a weekend trail run which is usually around 10 miles or so which has been pretty enjoyable for the last few weeks i've joined them.

Because it's a reasonable group, there are often stops every now and then to wait for slower runners or just to have a breather. When i look back at my stats there's a variance between "Total Time" and "Moving Time" of around 20 minutes and you can see from below my HR drops at each point.

pZqtClU.png


Whilst i accept i'm still getting a benefit from the run, and i really enjoy being out with people on routes i don't usually run. I only really have time for one long run like this. Do you think i'd be better every other week to just go out on my own and run at a more consistent pace/tempo?
 
It depends a bit on your goals and race calendar. The little breaks don't have a big impact on the benefits, but that does look like a lot of stops in 9miles. You might also be able to do a fartlek type workout within such a run if you know when/where they will stop then you can run 2-3 minutes hard before the break. For a marathon I would be tempted to do some regular long runs without breaks, not leas it is all about the psychology of pushing through even although your body is screaming to stop. As base aeobic training it is fine, and for training for longer ultras or trail marathons such breaks are fine but I would want the run to be a bit longer. And depending on your lenght of LRs right now,one option might be to do 4-5 miles on your own before the group run, then as fatigue builds up the extra breaks will be welcome.
 
Yeah, that run probably wasn't a great example as i was dying so held near the back and walked/rested more than normal. Normally i'd do more "looping" and try and keep up with the front runners.

That's a good call to run before the group run.

I'm planning on doing my own run this weekend as i need to do a longer run in preparation for next months 21 mile run in the Lake District, as you say mentally it's a big deal and with running with that group i've not been building up my LR distances as i had been prior to finding them.


On a side note, i seem to have got into a competition with a guy at work to see who can run the most in January. He did the Bolton Ironman last year. My only hope is that his exercise time is split between running, cycling and swimming and i'm only running!
 
@Marvt74 @The Darkness @D.P. - thanks a lot for all your advice - much more than I expected and really helpful. I'll go away and have a read up.

Marvt74 said:
The general rule is that you should be able to hold a conversation during running.

if you can’t you’re running too hard.
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I'm subservient to my HRM! I'm supposing this equates to "Zone 2" - 60%-70% MHR.

The Darkness said:
Try to keep in zone 2 (ie <70% HR reserve). Most of my easy runs will be at the lower end of zone 2 - around 60-65% HRR.

[snip]

I am a firm believer in this approach :)

Cheers
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Thanks. Makes a lot of sense.

D.P. said:
...The increase has to be steady, so by the time you get to your race you may still not be at a sufficient fitness level, but that is the consequence of deciding to do a difficult race with only a few months training without a recent running background training. Train towards your race. Yes, this makes sense. I'm just trying to maximise results from the time available. Running isn't my usual focus, and - candidly - isn't likely to remain so after May. Not that I think that affects or diminishes the advice provided by you and the others in any way.
  • You mentioned you can only run a few days a week, why is that, is it not possible to run during the week? There are always options to run before work, during lunch, run commute to work etc.
  • Due to young children, and work hours, this isn't possible at this time. Hopefully, towards the end of the training period, when the days get longer an evening run might be possible.
  • You talked about circuit training and weights. Use this time to run instead. Early on you may not be able to run 5-6 days a week so some cross-training initially is fine, but later on if you are time constrained then focus only on the running. Nothing else makes you better at running than more running, until you reach some extremely high training loads (consistent 15hours a week).
  • Most of the programmes I've seen have (admittedly longer) runs on every other day, interspersed with rest or cross-training. Are you saying work towards just running every day? Before I started I assumed I'd be too fatigued, but I was envisaging harder sessions and a resultant need for longer recovery times. What you are proposing is definitely something I can change to/work towards.
  • Your trail half marathon could take 3-4 hours depending on the terrain. If your max run is 30 minutes your chances of finishing are low. You have to find a way to get a long run at least every 2 weeks at around 1.5 to 2 hours. Also realize that aerobic benefits are maximized by training runs between 1hour and 2 hours. That is hard to achieve at a beginners level but it is something to work towards.
  • I'm going to be running to Parkrun each Saturday, which I did for nearly a year until last summer. That's 11 (quite hilly) km, but with scope to run for longer. Most programmes I've come across suggest a long run each week, followed by a short easy run the next day, so this is what I had planned for Sundays, but that could be extended if needed (Although, frankly, I'd like to keep that Sunday session as brief as possible)
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D.P. said:
Just to reiterate, running at a high HR really wont make you a faster runner In fact, you will also risk reducing endurance by missing out on important adaptions that only occur at lower aerobic stress.

Running in upper Zone 3/lower zone 4 instead of something easier in Zone 2 wont confer any real training benefits. What does help is a limited amount of training in upper zone 4 and zone 5 - interval training. But this is highly specific and advanced training workouts that are dangerous to do until your body has strengthened bones and joints. It is also pointless if you don;t have a high aerobic base built by many months of easy aerobic running. At the most this would be about 10-20% run volume, 1 day a week (2 if you are really advanced targeting < 2:50 marathons).

If you were an experienced running with years of high volume training, and due to a change in circumstances you had way less time on your hands you could moderately increase the amount of intensity to try and reduce some aerobic losses. But it isn't a long term sustainable solution to maintain performance. E.g., when i am on vacation or have a load of work schedules I might run shorter and faster for a few weeks.

Otherwise you have to accept that your run performance is dictated by the time you commit to it. And your body weight.


There is also a little difference between a 5km runner and a half-marathon/marathon runner. So someone dedicated to 5km and less might do slightly more high intensity workouts, but they still require a large volume of easy running in zone 2 (<70% HRR), even down to 1 mile racers. They don't run at a higher HRR but might aim for 2 speed workouts a week instead of 1 and the longest run is shorter (but 5k runners till do plenty of long runs up to 20km as it is the best way to build aerobic fitness).
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Thanks. That's useful. I used to row a fair bit, and strongly believe in the value of HIIT. Until you all warned me, I hadn't considered the risk of injury unique to running faster. I'd definitely planned to include HIIT running in my training programme - I used to - sets of 200 meter sprints in the middle of my training runs.
 
The training plan I'm on has 3 runs a week.
Currently, it looks like
1 30-40 min run at an easy pace
1 15min run easy, then 10x 20sec sprints with 45 sec rest then 15 min easy pace afterwards
1 longer run of 40-60 mins

It changes every week but seems to follow this pattern. I'm training for a half or full in May

Whenever I have ran in the past I have always just tried to beat my time every time I have ran. (normally 5km) so this style of training seems alien to me.
 
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