Please help me with Sound Upgrade (Stereo Speakers, Amp and sound card)

[peteruk]

Hi all,

I posted on here not long ago when I was looking for some new sound equipment to upgrade my PC’s current setup. I passed on that occasion, but have decided to look into it again with a good intent to buy. Basically, my knowledge of PC sound and such is lacking. I have what is apparently a very dated setup that is as follows:
5.1 Sound Blaster Live! Value Sound card
4.1 Logitech Z-540 speakers (will get some details)
So I’d like to improve this. My sound output is largely music but occasionally consists of movies and even the odd game. Basically, from what I gathered last visit (which was very informative btw) it was best if I went down the stereo speaker and amp route, as their sound quality far outstretched that of PC speakers. I decided I could keep my current speakers for surround sound ability for the few occasions when I need that. You never know, the new sound quality may out-weigh the need for it.

My budget is quite flexible; I’m thinking £100-£200, which I know isn’t a lot for this kind of thing but I’m hoping to make used purchases to save on cost. I'm prepared to go more if need be, especially as I have little idea of the soundcard element.

This is a very rough list of what I have been recommended for the Amp along with a few vague costs estimations:
1. Arcam 7 (approx £90?)
2. Marantz PM6010 (approx £100?)
3. Cambridge Audio A5 (approx £80?)
4. Cambridge Audio A1 v3(approx £50?)

And for the speakers:
1. Mission M71(i)
2. Mission 771
3. B&W 601

I have little idea for sound cards, so if someone could make a suggestion it would be much appreciated. It may turn out I don’t even need to upgrade this anyway.

Now I realise the importance of matching equipment that works well together, so my request to you OcUK pros is please recommend what you think I should do with these or other items to get what I ultimately want.

I know it's a lot to ask, but I'm really grateful for any help.

Some may also wish to know I have a rather small room. I’m not saying that because I’d worry about fitting everything in, but more because some things are meant to be best suited to certain size places. I think this is usually in the case of rooms being too big for the speakers rather than the other way round though so shouldn’t matter much for me. The room is also ground-floor, and the speakers will likely be floor standing, so this could be important for bass considerations.

As for second hand outlets, there is ‘the-auction-site-that-must-not-be-named’ as well as HiFiforsale. Any other suggestions welcome.

Thanks to anyone who can help,
Peter

P.S. I’m not sure whether this belongs in the HiFi section or Sound City, so please advise if it’s in the wrong place and I’ll happily repost.

 

[peteruk]

they're designed to be like 2 metres apart and you're supposed to listen from 2 metres away.

Well I think I can just manage 2 metres apart, but not 2 metres awat from each one, will this be a big problem?

Are you planning to put them on your PC desk?

It is unlikely, either directly on floor, or on a stand then on the floor, as people seem to suggest is better.

The same person recommended a Sonic T digital amp to go with them.

They are indeed very cheap, looks almost like there must be some be absent features compared to other apps. Hmm.

'nearfield'

This sounds interesting, might have to focus on speakers in this catagory then.

check out Roland DM10 desktop monitors

Hmm seems indeed cheap and convenient but would so limit upgrading possibilities I would think. Would also need to check for reviews first before considerring any speakers (except for those B&W though, which people seem to hold as sacred ).

Also consider the fact that for PC use you're going to be sitting higher than you would normally be if you were sitting on a sofa

I actually sit on my bed to use my PC (very small room you see), I'll measure the distance from the floor if need be.

but obviously a second hand purchase would either give you the goods cheaper, or get you more for your money.

I don't mean to worry, but is there any risk of components like speakers or amps wearing up after considerable use? I know they're well designed, but maybe if they're precision instruments they could wane over time?


Thanks for everyone's help so far!

 

[peteruk]

Great.

I'll put that Sonic T at the top of the Amps list and the B&W at the top of the speakers.

Anyone any ideas on soundcards though?
Is it worth me changing it?

 

[peteruk]

Ok I've just been looking on the B&W site and noticed there are S1, S2 and S3 versions of the DM601s.

Could anyone point out the difference between them?
And are the 602s much advancement from that?

Thanks

Now going to get a Sonic T.

Edit: Also, apart from the bay, where else would you recomend getting second hand speakers?

 

[peteruk]

Good as a starter setup

Sounds good but...

I would suggest that from reading about (and never hearing) those Class-T amps that you DONT want something like a 602 S3 at all, the two combined will have your ears running for the hills much faster than even a Rotel setup!

Ah, what do you mean exactly?

And there I was, setup all sorted...

 

[peteruk]

Wise words from a Hi-Fi Master

That is indeed a good point to think about. I seem to have overlooked the reality of this decision and the need to mix and match components that work well together.

Thanks for the pointer; think it's back to the drawing board for me.

Part of me wants to go for the Sonic T and B&W 601s just to see what it's actually like and judge that on future purchases, but I haven't really the funds to make second purchases.

 

[peteruk]

Unfortunately, living 'out in the sticks', means that I don't get access to such HiFi shops very often . However, I did notice last city trip, that my nearest Topshop (I know it's no Hi-Fi shop but... ) had what I am pretty certain were B&W 601/602s and I can now see what people mean about them. The sound seemed very alive and precise, but strangely abrasive.

Looking at alternatives, the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 look like a good candidate, as do Fish99's Eltax Monitor 3.

Those Mission M3 or M7 seem very hard to come across . Are 700s (like the 71i) from that range?

Comments, please.

As for Amps, I doubt I'll beat the value of the Sonic T, although people do seem to rave about the C320BEE.

 

[peteruk]

Thanks mate; do you mind if I add you on MSN?

 

[peteruk]

OK on impulse I have gone for some second hand Mission M72, that are very close relatives to the highly praised M71.

Now though, I have to decide on stands. After seeing what fish99 said, any Atacama stand range looks good, I just have to decide on the height. So basically, what is the ideal speaker elevation? My guess would be that the middle of the speaker should be ear height or similiar?

 

[peteruk]

Tweeters at ear height as the bass frequencies are less directional

Cheers, I take it...

The small bottom speakers are the tweeters?

 

[peteruk]

Correct. If you are using them at your PC "normal" speaker stands simply arent going to be high enough though.

Maybe, but I actually sit on my bed to use the PC (yes my room is in fact that small), so, 1m stands might just do it. I'm thinking the Atacama Nexus 10; if anyone else would like to praise any stand ranges please do.

Alternatively though, what would you suggest for "not-normal" speaker stands, if it ends up I need a bit more height?

 

[peteruk]

Looks great Fish99!

I've gone for the M-audio 2496 at the recommendation of DRZ, to go along with the Sonic T and M72s (think I paid a little too much for them but never mind ). Finding some 1m stands should be possible, but I'll need to think about cabling.

Any suggestions for what to look for and where?

 

[peteruk]

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, but finding some 1m stands at a reasonable price has proved very hard. Looks like I will have to get some that are somewhat shorter than I'd like - will it effect the experience badly? I've been told it is the lesser of 2 evils to do that rather than stand short ones on top of something.

I've nearly decided on cabling, but need to ask a few questions on biwiring. I understand what it is, but some people I've spoken to say it's not worth doing at all; apparently you can 'replace the jumpers on your speakers with speaker cable' and it has the same effect. Thoughts?

I've been recommended this Van Den Hul one, but am also considering the QED original, Ecosse Ref CS-2.3 and the IXos XHS-706W. The map-lin cable also looks like my cheap alternative.

This is going to sound rather basic, but will I need terminations?

What Hifi had an offer on of 3 mags for £1 so I took the opportunity to get some advice from them which has helped too.

As for the Charlize, Commited, they do indeed look like a very good option, but I think as this is my first hifi setup, I'll want something that is cheap and easy to use in the amp department. Worst comes to worst it's only £30 and I can considerred the Charlize at a later date.

I'll post how much I've spent on everything so far soon.

Edit: As promised:
Mission M72 (nearly new) £51 , postage £18, total £69
M-Audio 2496 (nearly new) £44, postage £7, total £51
Sonic T 5006 (new) £11.10, postage, £14.90, total £26
Spent so far: £146

 

[peteruk]

Also looking for an amp, only needs to be stereo, and will be being used at a pc, but it will be my main source of music, so I'd like it to be as good as possible for the money. Don't really want to spend too much money.

As you can see, people here seem happy with the Sonic T as a very cheap alternative or Commited's Charlize if you want to give that ago.

As for 'real' amps I can't help you.