Please help with speaker guidance

etherd · 20 Oct 2012 at 13:09

Hello,
So im looking to buy some new speakers for my new rig - i currently have: NO LINKING TO COMPETITORS!

So you see why im looking to upgrade.
Ive done some research into speakers, and i thought i was quite computer savvy, but speakers and sound seem to confuse me for some reason.

I will be using the speakers for (pretty equally) music, movies, music composition and games. Im not overly bothered by deep booming bass, that ratles windows at this stage, im more interested in richness and tone.
I sit about 1 1/2 - 2 feet from my monitor.
I have a E-mu 0404 (http://www.creative.com/emu/products/product.aspx?category=505&pid=20022).
And am looking to spend £100 - £200(flexible).

I know there is some debate between buying pc speakers/home theatre systems. Not sure what i should be looking at. However i read to avoid HTIB because speakers are usually a bit rubbish, and its cheaper and you end up with better quality by building your own. So i would be open to more of an "upgrade" system to fit my budget rather than buying everything at once, if its recommended to go the home theatre route. So starting with 2.1 and eventually upgrading to 5.1. This is where i get confused in the swamp of dobly digital, thx cetified, whether home theatre works with pc surround for music/games/movies, recievers (do i need one?), reading that s/pdif can be used for 5.1 but dosnt sound as good as 5.1 over analog.

Systems i have been looking at(pc speakers):
Logitech Z-906
Yamaha NS-P20
Logitech Z5500

Home theatre(upgradable):
Polk Audio CS2 Series II Center Channel Speaker
Polk Audio Monitor30 Series II Two-Way Bookshelf Loudspeaker

Could someone please give me some guidance and advice as to what i should be going for, and what setup will work best with what i have avaliable (budget and hardware)? As i said the main thing is richness in tone and quality. With surround a close second.

Thanks!

etherd · 21 Oct 2012 at 15:22

Thanks for the replies people - really appreciate it.

No point in trying to go 5.1 with an EMU 0404 as that is a pro sound card with 1/4" 2 pole jack outputs.

What does this mean? haha. How come surround wont work with the card?

Also what do you mean by amp? i only understand amps to be great big speakers to which a guitar etc gets plugged in. Sorry for my total non-understanding of this, i promise im rather tech savvy in other aspects

Im guessing the amp connects to the card through optical and controls the bookshelves? I take it this method would allow me to eventually upgrade and get a sub too?
Thanks - need all the help i can get

etherd · 21 Oct 2012 at 17:39

Ah shame about the surround sound not being supported. How about from onboard sound or will the quality suffer? I thought the optical out from the sound card would allow for 5.1. Is analog the better option for sound quality, i assumed it would be digital? I wouldnt need an amp for something like: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SP-000-AE&groupid=702&catid=22&subcat=
I take it? Because the speakers are active?
I liked the idea of having something more than stereo even just 2.1 to get more of an immersive "surround" effect. So if im playing a game i can hear more emphasis from explosions etc from left and right while the centre sorts the rest. Or if im composing/listening to music hearing violins on my left and cellos on the right, if that makes sense? How can i achieve this?

etherd · 22 Oct 2012 at 11:18

Awesome, well its good to know i didn't buy bad when choosing that card, was told to get it because of good ASIO support. So if i was to go the amp route, what is the best output to use from the card to the amp, iv'e read, during my many hours researching, that optical will give the best results and sound reproduction, is this true? or should it just be analog out (from jacks?) to analog in at amp?
Would something as simple as this suffice: http://www.amazon.co.uk/CAMB-Cambri...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350901319&sr=1-2
Will an amp support 2.1? just because i feel like the would help with the all round emmersion instead of just left and right sticking a centre in the mix?
Sorry for more non-understanding, but if im just doing stereo (or 2.1) why do i need an amp if i bought active speakers? the card has L and R output? :/
Instead of just going out and buying i want to understand why and what i'm buying,Thanks again for the help!

etherd · 22 Oct 2012 at 13:52

So stick to analog, yes?

If you bought active speakers (2.1 or 2.0 etc) you would not need a separate amplifier as there would be a very compact one with the speakers

I take it this affects overal sound quality? And thats why im better of with passive speakers and an amp - for better sound reproduction? am i getting closer?
Thanks for the pic kind of cleared thing up (very retro

). I was thinking more of a centre than a sub, but if my card wont allow for it then theres no point.

So would a cheapie £70 amp like the one i linked suffice, dont think i need one full of EQ stuff, main thing is i would prefer a smaller one than a great big lug of a box of my desktop, without quality suffering. Does the amp affect sound quality or just wattage and loudness, or is quality all down to the sound card?

Music composition?

KRK Rokit 6s

I take it these are good? they certainly look snazy! I mainly use sibelius and EWQL for classical composition, no "live recording". Thats why i want the richness of tone, nothing worse than tin-sounding violins and honking french horns! The wharfedale Diamonds look nice too, just a pain i cant hear any of them.

etherd · 22 Oct 2012 at 16:32

Just spoke to my dad and he got out some old akai speakers and an akai am m11 amp. Think its about 30 years old or something. It still sounded good though. He said i could have it but i think i might be better with something slightly more modern as i guess technology changes quite rapidly.
Thanks for the advice i will have a shop around and run it by you before i buy if thats ok?

etherd · 31 Oct 2012 at 16:04

Well, even though they will be for all round use, music, games and movies i think as kei said the sound should stay prety flat which i guess is down to speakers no sound card/amp?
Ive had a look around and wondered what you guys thought to any of these:
-Marantz Pm5004 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/MARANTZ-PM5...1S6C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350921925&sr=8-1)
-Denon PMA520AE (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denon-PMA52...OBAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350922175&sr=8-1)
-Pioneer A109 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-A-109-40w-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00005OOJF)
-Pioneer A10K (http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-10-K-Ster...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350920720&sr=1-2)

Price wise there all similar, what do you guys recommend any advice you've got is great.
Im also finding it hard to find second hands of these

etherd · 31 Oct 2012 at 16:31

Have you got speakers sorted to go with the amps?

Unfortunatley not, im just starting to get into sorting out some kind of music system that i can upgrade over time, and as good as those speakers look, because they have the amp built in it takes away upgradability and flexibility. If in the future i wanted to upgrade speakers i would have still have to pay for an amp and visa versa. Im also given to understand that speakers with amps built in can lack in quality due to paying for the built in amp in the cost of the speakers. How come you dislike the 0404, ive not experienced any trouble with it?

etherd · 31 Oct 2012 at 17:08

If you buy a cheap amp just now you'll probably buy some cheap speakers so when you upgrade the speakers in future the amp will still be cheap ... swings and roundabouts.

Hmm I understand what you mean, so your vote is save buying an amp and jump straight to quality active speakers? Aghh its so confusing, I'm basically just after accurate sound reproduction and good quality rich sounds. Not sure which is the best route to take. I have this problem with monitors in not forward planning how I want my desktop setup and end up with monitors that don't match my needs. /confusion

etherd · 31 Oct 2012 at 21:19

How big is your room, how loud do you play your music. If u like I can take pic of my setup for you

Not huge, 14 ft by 12, maybe a tad smaller. Volume wise some days i have it quite low just for general listening but then on weekend i have it sort of blaring, lol, but thats full on my old 5w each speakers, so guess thats not too loud - its definitley not loud enough.
I noticed listening to some old speakers and amp that the tone was very hollow and 'small' sounding, until the volume was turned up. By this i dont mean sounded quiet just wern't being 'driven'. I wondered if the 'loudness' button on the amps i linked would correct for this (the old one didnt have it). So when im listening to music quietly i still get the bass and highs with some impact. (hope that makes sense)

With your budget, i'd be looking at the second hand market. Cheap doesn't necessarily equate to crap.

So if i get on NO COMPETITOR MENTIONING! and have a look for some cheapie second hand ones could you give some guidance as to whats good, because apart from wattage all i've got to go on is looks, and as you said the old cheap looking ones may not be rubbish. Just feel like im entering a bit of minefield

etherd · 1 Nov 2012 at 11:40

Thanks for this pics and advice guys, Thats setup looks amazing, the speakers look a lot bigger than they do in pictures.
Had another look:
Denon PMA-255UK http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/s...5uk-special-edition-integrated-amplifier.html
Marantz pm4000 http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/marantz-integrated-amplifier-pm4000/1001813086
Marantz pm7200 http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/marantz-pm7200-phono-integrated-amplifier/111459390
Denon pma 355UK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DENON-PMA..._HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item484ae58440
Pioneer A400 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIONEER-A..._HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item3378330ffd
Pioneer a109 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pioneer-A..._HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item27cbf3269d

Found some cheap A5s too: http://www.gumtree.com/search?q=cam...nited+Kingdom&category=all&search_scope=title

etherd · 1 Nov 2012 at 15:01

Cheers for looking, im guessing the 7000 and 7200 are similar? Part of the problem with ebay is bidding wars, and if you dont wind you have to look for a compromise, prefer buy it nows, maybe thats just me.
Yeah looking into it further and seeing what people say the A5 dosn't look fantastic, would prefer to pay a bit more and get something better. Wow the audiolab one is uber retro!
How do the older ones (pm7000, 7200 and a-400) compare to some of the newer ones (Pioneer a109, a10k, denon pma520ae and marantz pm5004). I know there newer so difficult to find second but just thought due to their new-ness might perform just as well if not better than the older ones that people rave about (especially the a-400 and 7000). If they perform similarly i would prefer to fork out and extra £50 for something more modern and new. Not enjoying the lack of this 'louder' button on the old models for some reason heh

etherd · 1 Nov 2012 at 17:28

hehe think i would have to hide the vintage ones under my bed would stick out like a sore thumb with my setup. Will keep my eyes peeled for the ones you recommended from your list and the ones you suggested from my list. Gonna head down to richer sounds tomorrow because, as you said, i think i really need to hear some of these amps.