please just stop it, stop buying

[Panos]

lol good stuff

Had the 2080Ti was cheaper, I would have bought it if ray tracing etc was out also.
But now not even considering it.
a) given it's price,
b) we have no games with ray tracing
c) seems the devs struggling to make it work 1080p @ 60fps,
d) History lessons..... Lets remember the G80. It was promising "big performance with DX10 on Crysis", and came out 1 year before Crysis..... Its main selling point was DX10 and Nvidia tried to push it a lot. Even if the first DX10 game was 1 year away. Crysis came out a year later, it had crap fps on the 8800GTX and especially the 8800GTS (640 and 320).
Node shrink came straight after and follow up cards after Crysis (9xxx/2xx) were much faster in DX10 and cheaper. History repeats itself now.
We are on node shrink year, and when next gen comes out it will be cheaper and faster especially on Ray Tracing. Assuming AMD looks for 2019 and not 2020. Otherwise 7nm Turing going to be £1700-2000. (without factoring any currency issues after March 29th).

 

[Journey]

lol good stuff

Slightly confused, you spend an awful lot of time posting in a hardware enthusiast forum if all you are is a gaming enthusiast.

So which is it, are you a gamer who just "wants to play games" in his down time or a computer hardware enthusiast? For me I only play old games, and maybe Civ 6, or one of the newer RPG's if I can be bothered, but from a hardware point of view it is my livelihood and also of interest in general and has been for 30 years.

If you just enjoy the gaming buy a card that suits you then spend time taking about the games, not the hardware supporting it.

 

[Gregster]

Seems like the research level used is similar to the OC level used by Nvidia users

Sorry that's a bit of a low blow, but at the same time I've had similar results to Panos, though with different reasoning for card purchase. I can find one or two games which are so heavily Nvidia biased that the 1080 will win, but the vast majority of games will end up being quicker on my Vega64 than the 1080. The stock results from HWU, GN and many of the other sites are mostly done with stock settings on reference or the incredibly poor Strix cards. HWU in particular doesn't get how to OC his Vega's which is a point of contention, but hey that's the way of things. Most of the online reviews as a result skew the performance in favour of the 1080's as so far only the Overclock.net and OCUK Vega threads seem to have anyone who's really delved into the OC of these cards.

Even GN's softmodded Vega56 experiment has only core modded and 950MHz on HBM when the HBM ends up being a large part of the bottleneck at low frequencies. Flashing to the LC BIOS gets you 1.35v on the HBM instead of 1.25v and as such 1200MHz becomes the ceiling instead of 1100MHz (even then many V56's and V64's couldn't breach their stock HBM clocks, so silicon lottery there...). I think only Heaven benchmarks show the GTX1080 beating the Vega64 on this forum at the moment. Firestrike, Timespy, Superposition are all dominated by Vega64's and even some Vega56's.

I have a sense of humour, so all good and in fairness, grab a V64 or a 1080, run them side by side on a standard monitor (non VRR) and you would be guessing at what GPU was in each machine with a 50/50 chance of being right. My only point was the V64 isn't faster than the 1080 and it wins some, loses some and draws others.

Ohhh and I have really enjoyed my time over the years overclocking with air, water and LN2. Great fun and the only way worth bragging is when you hard mod a card and push it til it dies (or not) and volts are not governed by NVidia/AMD.

 

[Panos]

Seems like the research level used is similar to the OC level used by Nvidia users

Sorry that's a bit of a low blow, but at the same time I've had similar results to Panos, though with different reasoning for card purchase. I can find one or two games which are so heavily Nvidia biased that the 1080 will win, but the vast majority of games will end up being quicker on my Vega64 than the 1080. The stock results from HWU, GN and many of the other sites are mostly done with stock settings on reference or the incredibly poor Strix cards. HWU in particular doesn't get how to OC his Vega's which is a point of contention, but hey that's the way of things. Most of the online reviews as a result skew the performance in favour of the 1080's as so far only the Overclock.net and OCUK Vega threads seem to have anyone who's really delved into the OC of these cards.

Even GN's softmodded Vega56 experiment has only core modded and 950MHz on HBM when the HBM ends up being a large part of the bottleneck at low frequencies. Flashing to the LC BIOS gets you 1.35v on the HBM instead of 1.25v and as such 1200MHz becomes the ceiling instead of 1100MHz (even then many V56's and V64's couldn't breach their stock HBM clocks, so silicon lottery there...). I think only Heaven benchmarks show the GTX1080 beating the Vega64 on this forum at the moment. Firestrike, Timespy, Superposition are all dominated by Vega64's and even some Vega56's.

Many reviewers tried to OC the Vega by setting floor voltage to 1200mv -_-
Not much to say.

 

[Panos]

I have a sense of humour, so all good and in fairness, grab a V64 or a 1080, run them side by side on a standard monitor (non VRR) and you would be guessing at what GPU was in each machine with a 50/50 chance of being right. My only point was the V64 isn't faster than the 1080 and it wins some, loses some and draws others.

Ohhh and I have really enjoyed my time over the years overclocking with air, water and LN2. Great fun and the only way worth bragging is when you hard mod a card and push it til it dies (or not) and volts are not governed by NVidia/AMD.

Really wish had the space and money for extreme watercooling

 

[Gregster]

Slightly confused, you spend an awful lot of time posting in a hardware enthusiast forum if all you are is a gaming enthusiast.

So which is it, are you a gamer who just "wants to play games" in his down time or a computer hardware enthusiast? For me I only play old games, and maybe Civ 6, or one of the newer RPG's if I can be bothered, but from a hardware point of view it is my livelihood and also of interest in general and has been for 30 years.

If you just enjoy the gaming buy a card that suits you then spend time taking about the games, not the hardware supporting it.

Don't be confused and whilst you might miss things I say, I am a PC enthusiast above all else. I have built countless PCs over the years for friends and myself. I help out anybody who has issues (even though I hate doing that now) but it doesn't detract from the fact that I am old enough to enjoy my relaxation time and play games (I get a couple of hours in the evening when the wife is watching her soaps and I am not on shift).

If you want me to shut up, that aint gonna happen

 

[Gregster]

Slightly confused, you spend an awful lot of time posting in a hardware enthusiast forum if all you are is a gaming enthusiast.

So which is it, are you a gamer who just "wants to play games" in his down time or a computer hardware enthusiast? For me I only play old games, and maybe Civ 6, or one of the newer RPG's if I can be bothered, but from a hardware point of view it is my livelihood and also of interest in general and has been for 30 years.

If you just enjoy the gaming buy a card that suits you then spend time taking about the games, not the hardware supporting it.

Shameless plug time

This is my video of when I attended an extreme OC event in Cambridge. I didn't do any overclocking this time, as I was trying to push mine and midlifegamers channel but it was great to chat with Ian (8Pack) and Roman (DeBauer). Fond memories

 

[Journey]

Don't be confused and whilst you might miss things I say, I am a PC enthusiast above all else. I have built countless PCs over the years for friends and myself. I help out anybody who has issues (even though I hate doing that now) but it doesn't detract from the fact that I am old enough to enjoy my relaxation time and play games (I get a couple of hours in the evening when the wife is watching her soaps and I am not on shift).

If you want me to shut up, that aint gonna happen

No one is asking you to shut up.

I get much more enjoyment from pushing average hardware, and tweaking and testing it Vs just spending the most and knowing all I've done is give extra money away to a faceless corporation. I think it comes from having access to basically anything, it loses the appeal since you see it every day.

My latest challenge was using an ITX B350 and 2200G, and seeing how far I can push it on a stock cooler, which has been really fun and surprising. Just got a few games on it, when I get time but my main aim is to get back into Battlefield 2, and replay Fallout NV.

 

[TrixX]

I have a sense of humour, so all good and in fairness, grab a V64 or a 1080, run them side by side on a standard monitor (non VRR) and you would be guessing at what GPU was in each machine with a 50/50 chance of being right. My only point was the V64 isn't faster than the 1080 and it wins some, loses some and draws others.

Ohhh and I have really enjoyed my time over the years overclocking with air, water and LN2. Great fun and the only way worth bragging is when you hard mod a card and push it til it dies (or not) and volts are not governed by NVidia/AMD.

Actually for me it's pretty easy to pick the difference. Had both and the Nvidia colour reproduction is normally inferior with stock settings. Both need tweaking but AMD less so. But that's mainly from having to setup monitors for colour corrected output for magazines etc a few years ago. FPS wise they are similar, though more often than not the 1% lows are in AMD's favour again. Over the last decade I moved to chasing minimum FPS rather than average as the minimums are the ones that define good or bad experiences as things like FCAT began to show the disparity. So glad I dodged the bullet of a 7990

 

[Panos]

Shameless plug time

This is my video of when I attended an extreme OC event in Cambridge. I didn't do any overclocking this time, as I was trying to push mine and midlifegamers channel but it was great to chat with Ian (8Pack) and Roman (DeBauer). Fond memories

great stuff mate

 

[Gregster]

great stuff mate

Thanks and loved doing that. Not heard from HiVizMan in a while and heard he wasn't too good but a super nice fella and hope he is well.

AMD/NVidia/Intel are all companies that want our cash and whilst we may favour one over another, that doesn't stop us being enthusiasts and enjoying our PCs for gaming/work/porn/fun. I do love a bit of banter though but tend to keep on the level when advising people what to buy on forums or people I know. Hell, the last 3 builds I did was 2 AMD GPUs and 1 NVidia GPU for friends, so shows how biased I am

 

[TrixX]

Thanks and loved doing that. Not heard from HiVizMan in a while and heard he wasn't too good but a super nice fella and hope he is well.

AMD/NVidia/Intel are all companies that want our cash and whilst we may favour one over another, that doesn't stop us being enthusiasts and enjoying our PCs for gaming/work/porn/fun. I do love a bit of banter though but tend to keep on the level when advising people what to buy on forums or people I know. Hell, the last 3 builds I did was 2 AMD GPUs and 1 NVidia GPU for friends, so shows how biased I am

Exactly, I should have clipped the two Nvidiots I ran into on Reddit the other day. Incapable of reading without applying their bias. I needed a lot of popcorn! Gotta mention that there's quite a few AMD fools out there too, but why they fall for the emotional connection to these corporations boggles the mind.

 

[Panos]

Exactly, I should have clipped the two Nvidiots I ran into on Reddit the other day. Incapable of reading without applying their bias. I needed a lot of popcorn! Gotta mention that there's quite a few AMD fools out there too, but why they fall for the emotional connection to these corporations boggles the mind.

True.

 

[Gregster]

Exactly, I should have clipped the two Nvidiots I ran into on Reddit the other day. Incapable of reading without applying their bias. I needed a lot of popcorn! Gotta mention that there's quite a few AMD fools out there too, but why they fall for the emotional connection to these corporations boggles the mind.

In my younger days, it was the Spectrum V the C64 in the playground and nothing has changed since. No harm I say, unless people want advice on what to buy.

 

[TrixX]

In my younger days, it was the Spectrum V the C64 in the playground and nothing has changed since. No harm I say, unless people want advice on what to buy.

LOL don't come to Australia then. They are still Ford vs Holden even though neither are even made here any more

 

[mmj_uk]

PC gaming is complete pants these days so they have to sell graphics cards at premium prices due to a lack of volume sales. I'd get used to the ridiculous prices.

Every generation of consoles closes the gap to PC's and the next gen consoles assuming they have a Ryzen level CPU with 4 or more cores should be every bit as good as a high end PC for 4K gaming. PC's have just hit a point of diminishing returns and they still have CPU's and GPU's that can only communicate with one another over a slow (by console standards) bus.

 

[Legend]

PC gaming is complete pants these days so they have to sell graphics cards at premium prices due to a lack of volume sales. I'd get used to the ridiculous prices.

Every generation of consoles closes the gap to PC's and the next gen consoles assuming they have a Ryzen level CPU with 4 or more cores should be every bit as good as a high end PC for 4K gaming. PC's have just hit a point of diminishing returns and they still have CPU's and GPU's that can only communicate with one another over a slow (by console standards) bus.

Consoles are running at half the frame rate at 4K vs what a decent PC can achieve, so they have some catching up to do yet. Yes it can be expensive, but to run at parity it isn't, and to run well it also isn't. It's only if you must be at the bleeding edge do the prices get ridiculous. We're not talking like for like here.

 

[Gregster]

I do wish we had some RT games out now (or even 1) to help me justify the cost of my 2080Ti. Performance in current games is fantastic, as it should be at £1150 that it cost me but I do really want to see Raytracing in my games and in fairness, I don't even care if performance isn't there yet. A big ask from NVidia this time round, so I do hope they deliver.

 

[TrixX]

PC gaming is complete pants these days so they have to sell graphics cards at premium prices due to a lack of volume sales. I'd get used to the ridiculous prices.

Every generation of consoles closes the gap to PC's and the next gen consoles assuming they have a Ryzen level CPU with 4 or more cores should be every bit as good as a high end PC for 4K gaming. PC's have just hit a point of diminishing returns and they still have CPU's and GPU's that can only communicate with one another over a slow (by console standards) bus.

Mostly that's a software limitation. CPU's aren't gaining much in IPC or single core GHz which is the majority of the bottleneck holding gaming back. Once multi-threading becomes less of a headache and maybe even has an API to deal with it's utility in a more streamlined fashion we'll see the CPU perf unlocked wide instead of just tall. PC gaming still has far more power that's untapped and eventually the software will catch up.

The bigger issue is the dumbing down of gaming to suit a controller. I couldn't be bothered with a console these days, there's just not enough customization or even support for many of the games/projects I'm interested in. If you like shallow games then console is fine, but if you like something like Stellaris, Europa Universalis IV, Star Citizen, iRacing, rFactor2 etc. you aren't going to be doing much on that front on a console any time soon.

 

[TNA]

PC gaming is complete pants these days so they have to sell graphics cards at premium prices due to a lack of volume sales. I'd get used to the ridiculous prices.

Every generation of consoles closes the gap to PC's and the next gen consoles assuming they have a Ryzen level CPU with 4 or more cores should be every bit as good as a high end PC for 4K gaming. PC's have just hit a point of diminishing returns and they still have CPU's and GPU's that can only communicate with one another over a slow (by console standards) bus.

Even when new consoles come out, they will just ramp up graphics quality and target 30fps in most AAA games. So will still need a PC if you want 60fps. They will probably use checkerboarding also.

Saying that, I will be grabbing a PS5 on release. But it won’t be to replace PC gaming.