Plumbing help. T-adapter internal dimensions.

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 12:57

I am attempting to fit at-style adapter to an existing line.
When i remove the current flexihose style ending I am left with a joint above a shutoff valve that looks to have some internal copper pipe that protrudes above the rim of the attaching joint.
This wasn't an issue with the flexihose, as one seated neatly into the other before tightening the connector for a very snug fit.
When I attempt to connect the new junction, it is unable to slip down over the internal pipe fare enough to allow connection. The internal dimension of the new connector compared to the flexihose seems slightly different. Externally, the actually fittings seem identical.

I've added pictures as my words don't make much sense.
Basically what to do?
Do i need an additional joint?
Should I dissemble further down?
Can I trim that internal length of copper pipe?

The old connector removed to show the proud pipe of copper within the connector

Although the piece moves up and down, it doesn't move up enough to allow attachment to the new T section.

Old connector in place

New connector unable to slip over the copper that protrudes

Shutoff value

connector up and down to show the travel it had

Internal view of felxihose and new connector

The flexihose has no issues attaching to the female top of the connector.

fobose · 29 Mar 2020 at 13:16

I think the copper olive is stopping your nut from coming up enough to make contact with the thread. You can free them up but its a bit fiddly if you haven't done it before. I would undo the nut above the isolation valve and use a new bit of pipe and some new olives.

bremen1874 · 29 Mar 2020 at 13:21

It does look like a problem with the olive.

BTW you don't put PTFE tape on the threads. It's the olive that's supposed to create the seal.

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 13:30

Yes I thought it was the olive region, just didn't know what the name for that way, it simply looks to be too long, so I'll need a new fitting then.
Have to go at looking, thanks very much for the replies guys.
Good tip on the tape too, thanks.

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 13:48

I am unsure there is an olive in place, although on my picture there looks to be a rim, when i tried to push the new fitting into place, it seems to have made that mark, giving the appearance on the pipe of an olive, rather than one actually present.
would an olive usually be present where a flexihose was attached?

Steampunk · 29 Mar 2020 at 14:53

What you've got there looks like two compression fittings joined together with a short piece of copper pipe. It doesn't look like you have enough space to even get a olive splitter in there. The simplest thing might be to cut a new piece of copper pipe. Take the old one out of the top of the shut off valve, replace with a new copper pipe and new olives on each end. This should give you enough space to seat the new fitting (which seem to be a bit more shallow or not passing the old olive) onto the pipe.

Destination said:
I am unsure there is an olive in place, although on my picture there looks to be a rim, when i tried to push the new fitting into place, it seems to have made that mark, giving the appearance on the pipe of an olive, rather than one actually present.
would an olive usually be present where a flexihose was attached?

There should be because the olive compresses onto the pipe to make the seal. It's possible you can't see it because it's further down the pipe, but you can't move the nut down to see it. Also some people over do it and crush the pipe and olive down.

bushmins · 29 Mar 2020 at 15:14

You cant use the old olive. You'll need a new bit of 15mm pipe and an olive. Undo the nut on the compression valve (The one above the shut off screw) to release the old bit of pipe.

You'll need two spanners one to hold the compression fitting (Around where the shut of screw is) and one to turn the nut. You'll need two olives to get this to work.

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 15:16

Right, thanks guys, I'll have to source a bit of pipe, and an olive.
More complex than I initially thought, shame, the rest of it took seconds to sort.

I think the previous bit might have been overdone, as it was mad tight to start, was concerned I'd displace the whole shutoff valve initially when starting to undo the above.

Steampunk · 29 Mar 2020 at 15:44

Destination said:
Right, thanks guys, I'll have to source a bit of pipe, and an olive.
More complex than I initially thought, shame, the rest of it took seconds to sort.

I think the previous bit might have been overdone, as it was mad tight to start, was concerned I'd displace the whole shutoff valve initially when starting to undo the above.

Plumbing is never as simple as it looks. Simple, quick jobs never end up simple or quick. BTW, you will need two olives, one for each nut to screw down onto. Make sure your bit of pipe has a nice cut with no burrs or deformations, or get yourself a little pipe cutter. The pipe needs to be clean so the olive can squeeze down and make a good seal. Olives effectively get deformed onto the pipe, which is why you can't reuse them and should get new ones each time you open the joint or connect something new. A lot of people don't bother if they are just connecting the same thing back up again, and just overtighten a bit. If it's a new connector, I'd always say a new olive as they are never quite in the same place on the pipe, and you don't want to deform the pipe by over tightening.

You need two spanners, or a spanner and a plumbers grips to hold the shutoff valve steady while you undo the nut above it. A bit of copper pipe and a packet of olives can be had from any plumbers merchant or DIY store.

FlyingFish · 29 Mar 2020 at 16:25

I'm a plumber (well gas man of many years) and I don't recognise the new valve you're trying to fit, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But the connections on your new T valve don't seem to be of a compression type. (From your pictures) That's why the fitting won't go over the pipe, it's id isn't 15mm, so doesn't reach the olive that's hidden inside the existing nut.

Do you have a link to the new T valve so I can have a look for you?

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 16:55

FlyingFish said:
I'm a plumber (well gas man of many years) and I don't recognise the new valve you're trying to fit, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But the connections on your new T valve don't seem to be of a compression type. (From your pictures) That's why the fitting won't go over the pipe, it's id isn't 15mm, so doesn't reach the olive that's hidden inside the existing nut.

Do you have a link to the new T valve so I can have a look for you?

I believe this is the item
Unsure for certain as wife ordered it and handed it to me.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PLZH8YZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

states connector g1/2 but unsure which part that refers to.
maybe I need to attach to the other end of the flexihose rather than as far down as I am attempting?

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 16:58

just of note when i measure the ID it appears to be exactly 15mm, which for 155mm pipe would mean it wouldn't fit? yes? or should it somehow jam in there?

bremen1874 · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:10

According to the pictures on the listing, you should be attaching that valve to the end of the flex hose.

FlyingFish · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:11

It is a standard size fitting for the job it does, but that job isnt to be a compression fitting like your existing connection.
Compression fittings have a tapered internal edge that the olive seals against. That Tee is 1/2" thread, with a flat face for sealing with a washer.

Have a look at the last picture (amazon link), and you will see that the Tee is fitted under the cistern between two 1/2" face to face sealing surfaces. Not a compression fitting sadly.

I've known some people try and make them fit by bodging them up with PTFE, and forcing the joint together, but thats not ideal on what could be mains pressure pipework!

FlyingFish · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:14

Can you not fit the valve just like the last picture?

bremen1874 · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:16

I am wondering why you'd want a device that appears to be designed to spray freezing cold water up your backside?

JRJ · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:19

If you're able to replace to isolating valve replace it with this

https://www.screwfix.com/p/straight-service-valve-15mm-x/58008

If not one of these on to the short piece of copper will do the trick

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-px41-brass-compression-adapting-female-coupler-15mm-x/8080g

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:21

bremen1874 said:
I am wondering why you'd want a device that appears to be designed to spray freezing cold water up your backside?

Indeed. I would wonder too, but they are common throughout the whole of asia and can be used to clean the toilet as well as your arse.
I can attempt to fit as per the picture but given the style of cistern i doubt i'll have room to allow for access, as the end of hose is rather hidden.

JRJ · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:21

double check the thread size though I've linked one at 1/2 and one at 3/4 threads

Destination · 29 Mar 2020 at 17:30

JRJ said:
If you're able to replace to isolating valve replace it with this

https://www.screwfix.com/p/straight-service-valve-15mm-x/58008

If not one of these on to the short piece of copper will do the trick

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-px41-brass-compression-adapting-female-coupler-15mm-x/8080g

ah-ha looks good, now just to find it in stock or for delivery from somewhere