Soldato
It's only the Northern Monkeys that crash, us Southerners are sensible.
But seriously, people know the risks and with something like this they would not be driving at 10 10ths there, back or round the 'ring.
(Possible) OCUK does the NurburgRING 2011?
- Thread starter mast3r
- Start date
It's only the Northern Monkeys that crash, us Southerners are sensible.
But seriously, people know the risks and with something like this they would not be driving at 10 10ths there, back or round the 'ring.
Associate
Part of the reason that if it's a big meet, I'd be going on my own with a mate or two and then meeting up with people out there. If it's only a small affair then I'd be up for a proper convoy over etc. (Date dependent)
The rubbish about getting UK trackdays under your belt is a stupid thing to say, I've never been on track in my life yet have done 6 laps of the 'ring. The only thing I'd like to gain from a UK trackday would be to know how to handle my car on the limit/what to do if it goes wrong. As long as people realise to treat it like a B-road they don't know, and aren't complete retards, you'll be fine.
If you're worried about insurance hire a car - I did this year and won't ever take my own car on there again after having stress-free laps in a fully caged swift
(Obviously any new car will be subject to a slow evening lap to earn itself a sticker, but even then I'm aware it could go horribly wrong)All in my humble opinion obviously! To those who would just go for a holiday, it's an awesome place just to visit/walk around - we went for 5 days last year and only did 1 lap, and still have things in the local area left to see/do after 4 days this year too.
I think you have it spot on Naf. I've never done any track days, don't know how to properly drive quickly and my car prep consisted of checking there was some oil in the engine and giving the tyres a kick 
I was bricking it before my first lap but within one corner the grin was well and truly welded to my face.
We spent two days at the ring and only did 2 laps. Admittedly if the second evening was dry we would probably have done another 2 but we both came back buzzing and wanting to go back.
There is a fair bit to do, first night we found out about an RSR Lotus track day whilst chowing down steak at the pistonklaus (which turned out to be a Lotus / Porsche day) at the GP circuit that we spectated at, there was a classic rally with loads of nice metal to have a look at, Ring Werk to have a poke around, we did a few laps of karting and then there is always the Nordscleife to spectate at or head down to the toll gate and soak up the atmosphere a bit.
I was bricking it before my first lap but within one corner the grin was well and truly welded to my face. We spent two days at the ring and only did 2 laps. Admittedly if the second evening was dry we would probably have done another 2 but we both came back buzzing and wanting to go back.
There is a fair bit to do, first night we found out about an RSR Lotus track day whilst chowing down steak at the pistonklaus (which turned out to be a Lotus / Porsche day) at the GP circuit that we spectated at, there was a classic rally with loads of nice metal to have a look at, Ring Werk to have a poke around, we did a few laps of karting and then there is always the Nordscleife to spectate at or head down to the toll gate and soak up the atmosphere a bit.
Yes if it's on a full or half Touristfahrten day, when it's only open in the late afternoon for 2 hours or so it can be more restrictive on what you do for most of the day.
Adenau is alright but again isn't much to do if you got to spend all day waiting for the track to open.
Having been in august I thought it was fantastic and hoping to go again next mth when the track times are more flexible for most of the month.
Adenau is alright but again isn't much to do if you got to spend all day waiting for the track to open.
Having been in august I thought it was fantastic and hoping to go again next mth when the track times are more flexible for most of the month.
How much is to hire a Swifty?
thanks
thanks
http://www.rent4ring.de/en/info/rentals-for-the-nordschleife.html
that much
Also... http://rentracecar.de/english/vehicles-prices/index.htm
I'm surprised by the prices TBH. I'd be tempted to rent a basic one for that money
edit- hmmm... maybe not with a 2.5k excess
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thats pretty good pricing!
Caporegime
2.5k excess, woah. that would be enough NOT to enjoy your time on the track.
Awful advice!
OK, you don't agree but calling it rubbish advice is stupid. Any prior track experience to the ring will help you have a safter and more productive time. Surely advising someone not to increase their knowledge before hitting a track which has claimed more lives than most is crazy? You're also assuming that everyone will drive in a safe way as you claim you did. With no track experience beside two laps of the ring at a steady pace I'm not sure giving out advice on racing tracks is something you should be doing. Maybe I'd have given similar advice before I started doing track days but there's no way I'd recommend somene to just hit the ring cold.
So you went and treated it like a B road and had a good time. That's all well and good but it's also a shame to drive all the way to Germany to drive the ring in such a boring way. Even if you only have a £50 morning session on a local UK track the experience will help you enjoy the ring. With more corners, faster straights and less run off (in many cases) the Ring is a life taker.
It's impossible to learn all the corners etc on the Ring over a weekend. I have friends who've been going for years and still get caught out from time to time. Not having to worry so much about how your car handles is advantagous along with letting you enjoy the track.
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I think Naf was simply saying that it shouldn't be considered a pre requisite that you need to have track experience.
I also agree completely with his comment on driving it like a fast B road. As you stated yourself, you have no hope of remembering even 1/4 of the turns on a lap so you have to drive it conservatively expecting that every turn might actually be a hell of a lot tighter than you first think. I remembered one bend prior to going on and that was Ardenau Forst (sp?) because of the number of people that it catches out. Other than that I was driving to the limit of what I was confident I could manage.
Doing a track day and learning how to take a sweeping right hander is great... but will it really help when you can't even remember how sharp that next turn is, whether it has any positive or negative camber, whether it tightens or widens on the exit etc.?
No, Naf was saying my advice was rubbish. I didn't say pre requisite, I was simply saying it's advantagous. At the ring you have advanced drivers mixed with novices. It's usually the novices who hit the barriers, spin off or cause the most accidents. Having some experience is better than none whatever way you look at it. Am I wrong?
So are you saying that any track experience is useless as you can't utlise it on the ring? Again, having some knowledge of how your car handles will help you even if you don't know what corner is coming up.
I can't believe people think going on an open/none restricted track with NO prior experience is a good thing.
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What I'm saying is that in my opinion it is in many ways irrelevant. Yes a UK track day would probably help you find the limits of your car in a relatively safe environment. Try and replicate that on the Nordschleife and for many an inexperienced driver I can see it ending in disaster as the margins for error are in places quite small.
It's about increasing the your knowledge of your car and its ability to handle high speed cornering, heavy braking and other areas of track use.
Even little things you learn on a track day like not putting your hand brake on after a run is valuable information.
I guess having done many open pit track days I see things from a different perspective.
Yeah, probably. I went with the perspective that driving B roads quickly has done me fine for the last 11 years and this transferred fine for me on the ring.
Can I ask, how many track days did you do before tackling the Nordschliefe?
It's hard to give an exact number as I've been doing track days regularly since 1994.
If you can control yourself enough to only drive at B road speeds then you'll be OK however I don't know many people who can once they've hit a race track.
The thing I found about the 'ring was how it lures you into a false sense of security. Some sections are much wider than I anticipated meaning that you don't really feel the speed, it's only when you enter the corners and you feel the tyres scrabbling and screeching that you realise just what kind of speed you're doing.
I had lots and lots of fun though, first time on any kind of track so was taking it pretty cautiously. Kinda daunting at first when you realise just what you've let yourself in for.
I had lots and lots of fun though, first time on any kind of track so was taking it pretty cautiously. Kinda daunting at first when you realise just what you've let yourself in for.
Associate
Right, I just made a massive post replying to Orange Peel but it's not worth it.
The jist of it was this:
My post was aimed at those going over to the 'ring to tick it off their 'to do' list. This type of person doesn't *need* any prior experience whatsoever, they just need their wits about them whilst on the track.
If, however, you want to go over there and ruin a few sets of tyres and brake pads, then yes advanced training/experience would be damn useful.
For the record, my "claimed" steady laps were ~18 minutes for my first time (and yes, I booted it down the main straight
) and then down to about ~13minutes this year in the swift (about ~16 and ~15 minutes in my leon before I had lift off oversteer in the wet. Well, I say lift off, more a case of coasting round Kallenard and suddenly sliding towards the outside barriers with no prior warning) Would advance training/experience have helped me there? Yes, but only in the sense that I'd have known the wet line - the slide was at such a low speed that the car sorted itself out with just a slight dab of oppo from me (and I had the common sense not to jump on the brakes, learned that the hard way in my 'yoof)
In the swift I was being hypocritical as I was willing to push myself further as I knew I was insured - but even so at ~13minutes (nowhere near "quick", let alone "fast") I thoroughly enjoyed it and am already looking forward to next years trip(s)
The jist of it was this:
My post was aimed at those going over to the 'ring to tick it off their 'to do' list. This type of person doesn't *need* any prior experience whatsoever, they just need their wits about them whilst on the track.
If, however, you want to go over there and ruin a few sets of tyres and brake pads, then yes advanced training/experience would be damn useful.
For the record, my "claimed" steady laps were ~18 minutes for my first time (and yes, I booted it down the main straight
) and then down to about ~13minutes this year in the swift (about ~16 and ~15 minutes in my leon before I had lift off oversteer in the wet. Well, I say lift off, more a case of coasting round Kallenard and suddenly sliding towards the outside barriers with no prior warning) Would advance training/experience have helped me there? Yes, but only in the sense that I'd have known the wet line - the slide was at such a low speed that the car sorted itself out with just a slight dab of oppo from me (and I had the common sense not to jump on the brakes, learned that the hard way in my 'yoof)In the swift I was being hypocritical as I was willing to push myself further as I knew I was insured - but even so at ~13minutes (nowhere near "quick", let alone "fast") I thoroughly enjoyed it and am already looking forward to next years trip(s)
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Doing a UK trackday bears absolutely no resemblance to doing a tourist day at the ring.
About the only thing in common is driving fast and that's about it.
By all means get to grips with how your car handles on the limit of grip but that's pretty much where any comparisons end.
From Gloucestershire it's a 1200 mile round trip for me.
Cutting things to the bone you need £500 MINIMUM but you really can't have a good time on that little. Plus the fact you always have it in your mind "Have I got enough money / fuel to get home on" if you put in a few too many laps while there.
Laps last years were 22 Euros each..
Getting one lap in every 10 mins you can soon spend some silly money if the weather is nice and the car is on song.
Ideally for peace of mind you need funds available in some form of other should the pooh hit the fan.. have a spin, smack the armco and have to get towed off, you are looking at £1000 upwards, it goes Pete Tong pretty quickly! So a credit card with funds and a good credit limit is well advised.
Having said that it can be a great weekend away, even if the weather is crap and you don't get to do much there is FANTASTIC BEER !
Oh and yes I'd be well up for going with you lot, I can recommend eating places, a cheaper hotel with a great view, fixing any of the breakages, supply tools etc if I can and helping with where to go and what to do for the ones who've not been before.
Just wish I could speak German
About the only thing in common is driving fast and that's about it.
By all means get to grips with how your car handles on the limit of grip but that's pretty much where any comparisons end.
From Gloucestershire it's a 1200 mile round trip for me.
Cutting things to the bone you need £500 MINIMUM but you really can't have a good time on that little. Plus the fact you always have it in your mind "Have I got enough money / fuel to get home on" if you put in a few too many laps while there.
Laps last years were 22 Euros each..
Getting one lap in every 10 mins you can soon spend some silly money if the weather is nice and the car is on song.
Ideally for peace of mind you need funds available in some form of other should the pooh hit the fan.. have a spin, smack the armco and have to get towed off, you are looking at £1000 upwards, it goes Pete Tong pretty quickly! So a credit card with funds and a good credit limit is well advised.
Having said that it can be a great weekend away, even if the weather is crap and you don't get to do much there is FANTASTIC BEER !
Oh and yes I'd be well up for going with you lot, I can recommend eating places, a cheaper hotel with a great view, fixing any of the breakages, supply tools etc if I can and helping with where to go and what to do for the ones who've not been before.
Just wish I could speak German
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