Power Supply burntout AGAIN 3rd time, what gives?

anderson2005 · 25 Nov 2016 at 18:37

Hello all, it's me again bringing you another episode of 'Anderson's PC Problems!"

Jokes aside... yet again, my PSU keeled over and died. To paint the picture, I have the following specs:

CPU: http://prntscr.com/dbqrd3
Caches: http://prntscr.com/dbqrog
Motherboard: http://prntscr.com/dbqrtk
Memory: http://prntscr.com/dbqrzy
Graphics: http://prntscr.com/dbqs6k

This is what I had at the very beginning with no issues at all. GTA V was then released and I decided to get a new graphics card, an ATI Radeon R9 290x. This required a new PSU as it simply didnt have the right connectors plus I was concerned with the wattage not being sufficient as I have 550 with this Antec PSU that I have now.

Here comes the first problem...within about 8-9 months, the computer died on me. It would run fine without the GPU inside but fail to boot with the GPU in. I returned the card, they sent it back saying the card is fine, replace the PSU. I replaced the PSU - shockingly everything was working fine again. Several months later, BAM exact same problem occurs again. I didnt waste time sending the GPU and just replaced the PSU as it takes them about 2-3 weeks start to finish. Except this time, the new PSU didn't help boot the computer. So I returned the GPU to them. They this time just offered a full refund so I assumed the issue was the GPU causing the PSU's to fail. I had to revert BACK to the graphics card you see in the picture, AMD 270x or 260x I believe. Now, several months later, I leave my comptuer on over night (which is not unusual and not common either just depends on what I was doing the night before, IE, waiting for something to download.) And during the night, I wake up to a burning smell. I turned off my fan (not the computer fan, my actual bedroom fan thinking it was that...as it was only a cheapy one) and went back to bed. I woke up in the morning and could still smell the burning and I looked at the computer which was fine...and I opened case, couldnt really smell anything... so I just figured the bedroom fan had pumped out a lot... so I left it and started using PC. about 30mins in, the computer shutsdown without warning and refused to turn back on. That's when it dawned on me that again....the computer had issues....I open the case and look for any signs of burnt'ness and i see nothing, no smell really... a slight faint smell of burning....so I assumed it was the computer afterall..and so I gently touched the top of the PSU and BOY it was hot... couldnt touch it too long kind of hot. So once again, my PSU has died and from seemingly over heating.

My question is this.... I dont want to keep wasting time buying new PSU's if there's a fault elsewhere causing this issue. I'm seriously considering buying a new motherboard bundle and seeing how this goes? I don't know what else to do at this point... I know 100% it is not the GPU causing this because this is now my original one from years ago...and it never had problems in the years that I used it... I do/did have 3 hard drives connected this whole time, could it be a faulty hard drive? should i just go down to 1? I'm at a loss here guys, please advise.

pastymuncher · 25 Nov 2016 at 19:16

What make and model psu's have you had die on you? It's not down to the power draw of the pc as the current setup is fairly low power and even with the 290x I doubt if you would pull more than 350w at the wall, probably not even that much.

Have you tried using a different wall socket to plug the pc into? Everything connected up properly? What case do you have and is the psu mounted with the fan facing up or down? Is the case sitting on a carpet?

anderson2005 · 25 Nov 2016 at 19:38

pastymuncher said:
What make and model psu's have you had die on you? It's not down to the power draw of the pc as the current setup is fairly low power and even with the 290x I doubt if you would pull more than 350w at the wall, probably not even that much.

Have you tried using a different wall socket to plug the pc into? Everything connected up properly? What case do you have and is the psu mounted with the fan facing up or down? Is the case sitting on a carpet?

--

What make and model psu's have you had die on you?

Corsair CX750M is the one that just died. I can't recall exactly what the previous one was that died but it was a reputable make like COrsair as I know the important of cheap ones and I didnt want to risk damaging other parts due to poor quality PSU.

Have you tried using a different wall socket to plug the pc into?

I havent tried exactly this but I did replace the extension lead that I originally had when the previous PSU's failed. I have another computer in the house on another socket from the wall and that has no issues at all, never has done. I will when I get my new one, plug into that instead.

Everything connected up properly?

As far as I know yeah, I've upgraded memory/hdd/graphics many times in the past on previous machines without issues and so It's not COMPLETELY new to me to upgrade the graphics but as far as I know, I've done everything correctly. All cables are firmly seated and correct cables connected to the devices e.t.c.

What case do you have and is the psu mounted with the fan facing up or down?

This is my case: http://prntscr.com/dbrowa

I wasn't aware of this before but going by the make of the case (antec) i guess this PSU (the original that's is now back inside the computer) must have came with the base itself and this PSU unit (antec) has fans that face downwards whilst the new PSU's the Corsair for example and the previous one that also failed, both face upwards. I figured facing up would be better anyway?

Is the case sitting on a carpet?

Yes, my computer does sit on the card. But there are no vents (as far as I know) under the case so nothing should be getting blocked there unless I'm missing something?

pastymuncher · 25 Nov 2016 at 20:13

The Corsair CX range are not very good quality and use cheap internals. The VS series are even worse so avoid them at all costs. Still, that doesn't explain why three psu's with a lot more capacity than your components could ever draw have failed. If that CX750M is less than 3 years old you can RMA it for a replacement.

The reason I asked about the socket is that it could be a fault with the wall socket and it may be worth getting the socket tested.

I think we can rule the case out as being the problem. Even though the first psu was fan down and the case doesn't have a vent for the psu it does sit on tabs that keep the psu clear of the case floor and it wouldn't explain the second two psu's that had their fans facing up.

Have the 24 pin plugs on the psu and the 24 pin sockets on the motherboard been ok? No burn marks or melting? Usually if the board is drawing too much power that's where you will see the telltale signs.

Have you used the same psu lead (kettle lead) with all three psu's? If so I suppose it could be that at fault but probably not that likely.

The thing I keep coming back to is that wall socket as I have heard of faulty house wiring blowing psu's before and I can't think of anything else that would cause it.

anderson2005 · 25 Nov 2016 at 21:01

pastymuncher said:
The Corsair CX range are not very good quality and use cheap internals. The VS series are even worse so avoid them at all costs. Still, that doesn't explain why three psu's with a lot more capacity than your components could ever draw have failed. If that CX750M is less than 3 years old you can RMA it for a replacement.

I will certainly be taking this back to the retailer as it's within 1 year so i'll have them either replace or refund. I think im going to opt for a refund at this point and maybe get another one entirely.

The reason I asked about the socket is that it could be a fault with the wall socket and it may be worth getting the socket tested.

Unfortunately this isn't my house and I cannot arrange that, I will be moving soon anyway and thus would be able to test things if needed at that point which I shouldnt need to. In addition to this though, I have another PC that is even newer/more expensive and has a bigger graphics card in it, 980Ti which is running from another socket entirely I have switched my computer over to that socket so both are using that now so if the socket is faulty, I should not experience any further issues and if I do, I know then that it cannot be the socket.

I think we can rule the case out as being the problem. Even though the first psu was fan down and the case doesn't have a vent for the psu it does sit on tabs that keep the psu clear of the case floor and it wouldn't explain the second two psu's that had their fans facing up.

Yeah I never noticed the old antec PSU faced down to be honest, I did think it was a bit odd when I installed it back just now though... lol. And yes you're correct it's not directly on the base itself it has a little thing that it sits on like the harddrives.

Have the 24 pin plugs on the psu and the 24 pin sockets on the motherboard been ok? No burn marks or melting? Usually if the board is drawing too much power that's where you will see the telltale signs.

As far as I know the, the pins are okay I havent seen under the motherboard (the side that faces the rear of the case) but the front side appears to be normal, no obvious signs of burning or otherwise. I will double check this now.

Have you used the same psu lead (kettle lead) with all three psu's? If so I suppose it could be that at fault but probably not that likely.

I did change this with each new PSU, however just now.. I used the same PSU cable that the Corsair used but with the antec as I have no idea where the antec one is, I think I may have accidently put that in with one of the other PSU's that I had returned but I know that this one in right now is the most recent cable as it's got a little sticker on it matching the PSU.

The thing I keep coming back to is that wall socket as I have heard of faulty house wiring blowing psu's before and I can't think of anything else that would cause it.

This is what I'm beginning to believe too... I suspect strongly that if it is the wiring, it is that outlet specifically that is at fault as I know my other computer is fine..and has been all this time. So ive moved to that same outlet as the other computer and now lets hope and see...

anderson2005 · 25 Nov 2016 at 21:25

Just to add to this, I intend on buying a new graphics card and I've kind of had my heart set on nVidia's GTX 1070 the MSI Gaming X one. It seems to be the best so far for the range excluding the Gaming Z one but that's a minimal difference doesnt really warrant extra ££.

With that in mind, what would you recommend as a new PSU should i be able to get a refund on the existing one.

martinwood333 · 26 Nov 2016 at 10:11

Sorry to hear that you're having problems! 3 dead PSU'S ain't a walk in the park at all. After reading through the thread, "wall socket" kept popping into my head aswell. Even cheap Corsair PSU'S are decent enough to last their warranty if used wisely, so it's very unfortunate.

I would be buying an outlet tester from B&Q (though these only check the socket is wired correctly. Doesn't check ratings), or get a sparky round to check your wall sockets and wiring to be on the safe side. It could even be the outlet is not properly earthed, because as I read somewhere recently, PSU'S use the earth/ground to discharge excess ripple(?), and without it, it gets fed back into the system. Not sure how accurate that is and is probably totally false given the Internet, but it's worth a check anyway, even for safety's sake.

pastymuncher · 26 Nov 2016 at 15:27

I don't think you will get a refund on the CX750M but it depends on where you bought it from. Most likely you will be fobbed off to RMA direct to Corsair in which case you would get a identical model back.

One thing I didn't think of yesterday is that the CX series are only rated at 30 degrees C so if they where overheating that could have caused them to fail although they should have thermal protection to prevent this from happening. It's just another reason why these poor quality psu's should be avoided.

As for a replacement, a good quality 500w psu would be more than enough for your pc and still have plenty of headroom left. I have yet to see my pc hit 300w at the wall even with the 1070 heavily overclocked while benching. Normal gaming power draw is around 220-250w at the wall, depending on the game. That's including the water cooling pump, 6 fans, some led's and a couple of water temp monitors.

Unfortunately the vast majority of 550w psu's that we normally recommend are still out of stock so I will be suggesting some 650w units as well.

This is a cracking deal at the moment. Be aware though that the Superflower Leadex psu's have bright white led's where you plug the cables in and they cannot be turned off.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x Super Flower Leadex Platinum 650W Fully Modular "80 Plus Platinum" Power Supply - Black= £94.99

Total: £105.49
(includes shipping: £10.50)

Alternatively the EVGA Supernova GQ 650w is also a very good psu. It's a FSP built unit with the full 650w available on the single 12v rail and has a 5 year warranty. Jonnyguru gave it 9.4/10 in his review.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x EVGA GQ 650W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply - Black= £83.99

Total: £94.49
(includes shipping: £10.50)

A couple of 550w units:-

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x Super Flower Leadex GOLD 550W Fully Modular '80 Plus Gold' Power Supply - Gunmetal= £83.99
1 x EVGA Supernova GS 550W '80 Plus Gold' Modular Power Supply= £57.95

The EVGA GS 550w is a Seasonic built unit with a single 12v rail of 540w and has a 5 year warranty. We have had reports of it from users on here that the fan can be noisy. That coupled with the high normal price means I don't normally recommend it but it has a significant saving at the moment. Review here.

The Superflower has the full 550w available on it's single 12v rail and also has a 5 year warranty.

As for a GTX 1070 I see no reason to choose any card more expensive than the current price of the Zotac GeForce GTX 1070 AMP Extreme Spectra RGB. It's one of the fastest and coolest 1070's around and if you register it with Zotac within the allowed time period after purchase you get a whopping 5 year warranty. The cooler is a absolute monster though.

I would urge you to get the wall sockets checked out before spending any more money or at least use a different wall socket. I would hate for you to spend all this money for something catastrophic to happen. PSU's can kill other components when they fail. A decent one shouldn't as the protection should kick in but it's not unheard of.

anderson2005 · 27 Nov 2016 at 17:02

pastymuncher said:
I don't think you will get a refund on the CX750M but it depends on where you bought it from. Most likely you will be fobbed off to RMA direct to Corsair in which case you would get a identical model back.

One thing I didn't think of yesterday is that the CX series are only rated at 30 degrees C so if they where overheating that could have caused them to fail although they should have thermal protection to prevent this from happening. It's just another reason why these poor quality psu's should be avoided.

As for a replacement, a good quality 500w psu would be more than enough for your pc and still have plenty of headroom left. I have yet to see my pc hit 300w at the wall even with the 1070 heavily overclocked while benching. Normal gaming power draw is around 220-250w at the wall, depending on the game. That's including the water cooling pump, 6 fans, some led's and a couple of water temp monitors.

Unfortunately the vast majority of 550w psu's that we normally recommend are still out of stock so I will be suggesting some 650w units as well.

This is a cracking deal at the moment. Be aware though that the Superflower Leadex psu's have bright white led's where you plug the cables in and they cannot be turned off.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x Super Flower Leadex Platinum 650W Fully Modular "80 Plus Platinum" Power Supply - Black= £94.99

Total: £105.49
(includes shipping: £10.50)

Alternatively the EVGA Supernova GQ 650w is also a very good psu. It's a FSP built unit with the full 650w available on the single 12v rail and has a 5 year warranty. Jonnyguru gave it 9.4/10 in his review.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x EVGA GQ 650W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply - Black= £83.99

Total: £94.49
(includes shipping: £10.50)

A couple of 550w units:-

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x Super Flower Leadex GOLD 550W Fully Modular '80 Plus Gold' Power Supply - Gunmetal= £83.99

1 x EVGA Supernova GS 550W '80 Plus Gold' Modular Power Supply= £57.95

The EVGA GS 550w is a Seasonic built unit with a single 12v rail of 540w and has a 5 year warranty. We have had reports of it from users on here that the fan can be noisy. That coupled with the high normal price means I don't normally recommend it but it has a significant saving at the moment. Review here.

The Superflower has the full 550w available on it's single 12v rail and also has a 5 year warranty.

As for a GTX 1070 I see no reason to choose any card more expensive than the current price of the Zotac GeForce GTX 1070 AMP Extreme Spectra RGB. It's one of the fastest and coolest 1070's around and if you register it with Zotac within the allowed time period after purchase you get a whopping 5 year warranty. The cooler is a absolute monster though.

I would urge you to get the wall sockets checked out before spending any more money or at least use a different wall socket. I would hate for you to spend all this money for something catastrophic to happen. PSU's can kill other components when they fail. A decent one shouldn't as the protection should kick in but it's not unheard of.

Thank you for the advice, I'm holding off on buying any new GTX at the moment at least until I move out of this house and into my own. (To eliminate the electric being the cause)

Like you said, they wouldnt allow a full refund but allowed me to change it to another PSU which unfortunately, maplin (the place i got it) only seem to have corsair's so I was forced to get another corsair but the RM850x one instead. Hopefully these are somewhat better than the CX?

Depending on what you feel about the RM850x will determine whether I use it or not however as I may just buy awhole new PSU (from the list you suggested) instead nearer the time of when I get the GTX card.

Also one of the reasons I wanted the MSI is i hear it comes with various softwares that really help boost graphics and such, plus the specs are a bit better than the other cards. Is this not actually true? or whilst it is true, is it
simply not worth the price tag of £430?

[UPDATE]

So I just checked out the GTX 1070 Zotac you mentioned, price wise theyre the same cost for the Gaming X so is there any reason why you would choose the Zotac over the MSI? Are they more reliable/durable?

pastymuncher · 27 Nov 2016 at 20:23

The RM850x is a excellent psu (review here and here). The RMx series is arguebly the best model that Corsair sells. It's a CWT built unit with a single 12v rail of the full 850w and you get a whopping 10 year warranty (check to see if you need to register it).

The software for the MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X is a bit of a con really as you need the software to get the advertised max clocks out of it. The card has 3 modes, silent 1683 MHz / 1506 MHz / 8010 MHz (base/boost/mem), gaming 1771 MHz / 1582 MHz / 8010 MHz (base/boost/mem) and overclock 1797 MHz / 1607 MHz / 8108 MHz (base/boost/mem). Out of the box the card runs in gaming mode so if you want the full speed of the overclock mode you have no choice but to install MSI's software to enable it. I hate this and think it's quite sneaky but MSI are not the only company to do this with Pascal. Gigabyte are another company who have done this.

The Zotac, my Palit and most of the other higher clocked cards run the max clocks out of the box with no messing around with software.

At the end of the day it's margely irrelevant as most of the GTX1070's are boosting to 1900mhz+ out of the box. My Palit boosts to 2012mhz with no overclocking. I would buy based on cooler and warranty right now. With most cards boosting way past their stated clocks it doesn't seem right to splash out on a more expensive card.

If you must go with MSI the Gaming Z is cheaper than the Gaming X at the moment but will be back to normal by the time you are ready to buy.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x MSI GeForce GTX 1070 GAMING X 8G 8192MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card= £455.99
1 x MSI GeForce GTX 1070 GAMING Z 8G 8192MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card= £449.99

Sasahara · 28 Nov 2016 at 14:10

When you get a new PSU, if you can install the PSU face downwards, do so. As long as there's 5-10mm of gap under it air can get in.

Having it face up means the slow fans are trying to suck air down as the heat the PSU creates is rising, heating the air you are trying to suck in to cool it. Doesn't really make much sense.

Also over time the PSU will get a lot of dust (depending how duty the enviroment is) collected in it with the fan face up, this will make the PSU hotter. Most PSUs speed the fan up based on power usage rather than temps. If the temperature goes up due to dust build up the fan may not run fast enough to remove the hot air, on top of the issue I mentioned in paragrah 2.

So in short, PSU fan DOWN!.

bledd · 28 Nov 2016 at 14:47

What kind of temperatures are the rest of your components?

Do you have case fans?

Sasahara may be onto something here..

pastymuncher · 28 Nov 2016 at 18:56

Sasahara said:
When you get a new PSU, if you can install the PSU face downwards, do so. As long as there's 5-10mm of gap under it air can get in.

Having it face up means the slow fans are trying to suck air down as the heat the PSU creates is rising, heating the air you are trying to suck in to cool it. Doesn't really make much sense.

Also over time the PSU will get a lot of dust (depending how duty the enviroment is) collected in it with the fan face up, this will make the PSU hotter. Most PSUs speed the fan up based on power usage rather than temps. If the temperature goes up due to dust build up the fan may not run fast enough to remove the hot air, on top of the issue I mentioned in paragrah 2.

So in short, PSU fan DOWN!.

He has a original Antec 300 which has no bottom vent for a psu. Instead the psu sits on some little tabs to just about keep it off the bottom of the case so it makes little difference if it's fan up or fan down when it comes to dust and sucking in air. It will probably be even worse for dust because what normally builds up on the base of the case will just get sucked straight into the psu. Never did like that case.

Sasahara · 28 Nov 2016 at 22:38

pastymuncher said:
He has a original Antec 300 which has no bottom vent for a psu. Instead the psu sits on some little tabs to just about keep it off the bottom of the case so it makes little difference if it's fan up or fan down when it comes to dust and sucking in air. It will probably be even worse for dust because what normally builds up on the base of the case will just get sucked straight into the psu. Never did like that case.

You don't need vents for the air to flow in the gap underneath is more than enough.

And the fan won't have anywhere near the air pressure to suck dust up, not that you'll get much dust under the PSU. PSUs aren't vacuum cleaners.

But the main benefit of having the fan down, all the air and most of the heat will be vented out the back of the PSU, not inside the case, or staying in the PSU due to inefficient cooling.

I had a PSU that was running 24/7 for 6 .5 years in a pretty dusty case, but pretty much no dust inside the PSU when I opened it up after it died. If it was face up all the dust that was on the bottom of the case and what I had dusted off the top of the PSU over the years would have been in the PSU.

The only reason the PSU failed, the fan died and I didn't notice, so it got a bit hot.

pastymuncher · 29 Nov 2016 at 10:50

The point is that with his case if the psu is fan down the dust won't get a chance to settle on the bottom of the case as it will get sucked straight into the psu. It doesn't matter if it's fan down or fan up it's still shifting the same air at the bottom of the case and exhausting it out the rear. No psu's these days exhaust into the case.

Sasahara · 29 Nov 2016 at 12:05

pastymuncher said:
The point is that with his case if the psu is fan down the dust won't get a chance to settle on the bottom of the case as it will get sucked straight into the psu. It doesn't matter if it's fan down or fan up it's still shifting the same air at the bottom of the case and exhausting it out the rear. No psu's these days exhaust into the case.

Science, heat rises, PSU fans don't run fast enough to counteract this.

Put you hand over a PSU with the fan face up when it's got a reasonable load, if you feel heat coming out it's exhausting heat into the case.

The air flow won't suck dust into the PSU, dust is surprisingly heavy, you need a decent amount of suction to pull it under and up, PSU generally don't have this level of suction. My 6.5 year example proves this.
If the fan is face up dust is defiantly going to go in it.

This is a pretty basic stuff, not sure how you don't understand this.

Ace Modder · 29 Nov 2016 at 12:48

And pastymuncher, you said you dislike the Antec 300 because of the way a PSU is mounted.

All cases from the Antec three hundred era and older all have the PSU like this, it was never a problem for years and years and still isn't but newer chassis' tend to stick to the later style.

pastymuncher · 29 Nov 2016 at 13:22

Sasahara said:
Put you hand over a PSU with the fan face up when it's got a reasonable load, if you feel heat coming out it's exhausting heat into the case.

Just about every psu sold today sucks air in through the fan and exhausts it out the back. If you have one that exhausts through the fan into the case there is something wrong with it as the fan will be running in reverse.

Don't see why you don't understand this.

Ace Modder said:
And pastymuncher, you said you dislike the Antec 300 because of the way a PSU is mounted.

All cases from the Antec three hundred era and older all have the PSU like this, it was never a problem for years and years and still isn't but newer chassis' tend to stick to the later style.

I didn't say I dislike the case because of the way the psu is mounted at all. What I said was that I never did like that case.

Sasahara · 29 Nov 2016 at 22:17

pastymuncher said:
Just about every psu sold today sucks air in through the fan and exhausts it out the back. If you have one that exhausts through the fan into the case there is something wrong with it as the fan will be running in reverse.

Don't see why you don't understand this.

I haven't said anything to the contrary, you just can't read, or your just trolling me?

You get the basic concept heat rises?

If you want to cool hot elements pushing cool air up and then horizontal out would require less air pressure/flow as you running with the heat rather than against it. So it's the most efficient cooling method.

Can you see why the fan would have to run faster to get the same results face up, trying to push hot air down?

As the PSU doesn't know what way up it is it the fan runs at the same speed.

When the PSU is face up the fan won't be running fast enough to stop all the heat escaping, since it was designed to run face down.

I'm not sure I can explain such a basic concept in more simpler terms.

Do you really think case manufacturers would put space under a PSU if there wasn't good reason for it?

Does anyone else understand this?

pastymuncher · 30 Nov 2016 at 10:44

I am not trolling anyone. You are the one that started getting all agressive. Fine, whatever. The ops thread has been trashed enough. It's most likely not even the reason he has had these failures.