Pret allergy death

[Semple]

I'm surprised there's not been a thread on this already.

Anyone who's watched/read the news in the last week will undoubtedly have come across the sad story of the young girl who died after eating a baguette purchased from Pret.

Having the inquest is obviously a good thing, as i would hope regulations change and force any shop selling hand-made sandwiches (regardless of how small the business is) to put individual labels on products to list ingredients/allergen info.

What gets me is your typical SJW's who are plastering all over social media about how Pret should be sued. Whilst absolutely tragic, Pret have only followed what the regulations outline needs to be done, so in theory haven't done anything wrong.

The other thing that crosses my mind, if you have an allergy that could actually kill you, as opposed to mild swelling/rashes etc. Why on earth would you not have asked at the till whether the item you're purchasing has such and such in it. A minor inconvenience to the staff, and perhaps the queue of customers, but would no doubt have saved this girls life.

I think all we can hope to see from this tragedy is much better labelling on food products to prevent another person from needlessly dying.

 

[Tek81]

I'm surprised there's not been a thread on this already.

Anyone who's watched/read the news in the last week will undoubtedly have come across the sad story of the young girl who died after eating a baguette purchased from Pret.

Having the inquest is obviously a good thing, as i would hope regulations change and force any shop selling hand-made sandwiches (regardless of how small the business is) to put individual labels on products to list ingredients/allergen info.

What gets me is your typical SJW's who are plastering all over social media about how Pret should be sued. Whilst absolutely tragic, Pret have only followed what the regulations outline needs to be done, so in theory haven't done anything wrong.

The other thing that crosses my mind, if you have an allergy that could actually kill you, as opposed to mild swelling/rashes etc. Why on earth would you not have asked at the till whether the item you're purchasing has such and such in it. A minor inconvenience to the staff, and perhaps the queue of customers, but would no doubt have saved this girls life.

I think all we can hope to see from this tragedy is much better labelling on food products to prevent another person from needlessly dying.

As tragic as the story is, I have to admit, the same thing crossed my mind.

 

[cheesyboy]

i would hope regulations change and force any shop selling hand-made sandwiches (regardless of how small the business is) to put individual labels on products to list ingredients/allergen info.

Disagree - too heavy a burden on small shops, and to a great extent is out of their control - they buy their ingredients in.

Whilst absolutely tragic, Pret have only followed what the regulations outline needs to be done, so in theory haven't done anything wrong.

Disagree. The law isn't the same thing as morality. Being 'wrong' doesn't have to be tied to laws. and I think they are in the wrong.

As a further thought on the tragedy, should airlines not carry some Epipens on board as part of an emergency kit?

 

[Angilion]

Disagree - too heavy a burden on small shops, and to a great extent is out of their control - they buy their ingredients in.

But the company they buy their ingredients from probably isn't a small shop and will be required to list the ingredients in the products they sell in order to be allowed to sell in the EU (and anywhere else with comparable laws regarding food sales). It isn't a heavy burden to read the ingredient lists.

But even if the law should exclude small businesses, it shouldn't exclude this business. If the size of the business is relevant, the size of the business is relevant. Not the way in which they package the food they sell.

Disagree. The law isn't the same thing as morality. Being 'wrong' doesn't have to be tied to laws. and I think they are in the wrong.

True, but being punished is tied to laws and that's why there's an investigation.

As a further thought on the tragedy, should airlines not carry some Epipens on board as part of an emergency kit?

It has been reported that 2 were used on her without effect. People who know they have life-threatening allergies usually carry their own for obvious reasons.

 

[Destination]

As tragic as the story is, I have to admit, the same thing crossed my mind.

I don't believe the item had it in it, but had been cooked in sesame oil.
Virtually all food i buy, even from corner shops, filling stations, the butchers, all comes fully labelled with what is in it now.
I think the food labelling in this country it great.
Obviously at the time, prets labelling wasn't.

Additionally they had six previous incidents that same year prior to this death where inadequate labelling was reported to them.
Doesn't seem like they did anything to help themselves.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Disagree. The law isn't the same thing as morality. Being 'wrong' doesn't have to be tied to laws. and I think they are in the wrong.

How are Pret in the wrong?
Did the girl ask what was in it? Did the people know and did they tell her? Is there a sign up saying, 'Food is made in an environment with the following possible allergens: ' or something?
How far does one have to go in order to possibly save one person, while not seriously impacting business?

I'm no fan of Pret and similar such places, but laws are founded upon generally accepted morality and that's what they're supposed to guide in situations like this. Beyond that it's just a case of trying to find someone to blame - It's easier and more popular to slam a big, faceless company with lots of money they can pay out, rather some sweet, young, innocent girl who might have been so foolish or forgetful as to not check what she was eating...

 

[Semple]

Disagree - too heavy a burden on small shops, and to a great extent is out of their control - they buy their ingredients in.


Disagree. The law isn't the same thing as morality. Being 'wrong' doesn't have to be tied to laws. and I think they are in the wrong.

As a further thought on the tragedy, should airlines not carry some Epipens on board as part of an emergency kit?

Ok yes morally they could have decided to place labels on food products despite the law not requiring them to do so.

As @Angilion points out, the girls Dad used two epipens on her without any effect - whether they were used too late etc will probably be covered in this investigation. I think an article i read last week mentioned something along the lines that the length of the needles on the epipens would't have allowed the adrenaline to get round her bloodstream to counter the effects. Which if that's the case then carrying an epipen wouldn't have made much difference. So i again wonder why she never asked whether the baguette had sesame seeds in it.

 

[Angilion]

I don't believe the item had it in it, but had been cooked in sesame oil.
[..]

According to reports, the dough used in making the bread contained sesame and this was listed on the ingredients list which the shop had.

 

[dowie]

Disagree - too heavy a burden on small shops, and to a great extent is out of their control - they buy their ingredients in.

I think that is a poor excuse tbh... being a small shop shouldn't exempt you from regulations put in place to try and save lives. It isn't exactly a burden to write "contains nuts", "contains sesame seeds" etc.. on a sign by the product.

For example there was a curry house involved in a death related to nuts (some curry apparently houses cut corners by replacing almond powder with a nut mix) - the owner was jailed for 6 years:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36360111

Disagree. The law isn't the same thing as morality. Being 'wrong' doesn't have to be tied to laws. and I think they are in the wrong.

As a further thought on the tragedy, should airlines not carry some Epipens on board as part of an emergency kit?

Yeah I think they ought to have better labeled their food too rather than doing the bare minimum as required by law.

I also agree it could be useful for airlines to carry epipens, they do often carry AEDs AFAIK.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I'm a bit confused by this as none of the reports seem to outright state it. Was there a label on the sandwich with the ingredients which sesame missing or was there no ingredients on the label at all?

 

[McGray]

Tragic as this death is, if there was a common ingredient out there that I knew could kill me, I'd probably make all my own food.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I think that is a poor excuse tbh... being a small shop shouldn't exempt you from regulations put in place to try and save lives.

I don't believe it does - It certainly doesn't exempt you from all the other, 'lesser' laws, and the penalties are the same regardless of size. A couple of misleading price indications costs £10,000 in fines, whether you're Jupinder's Newsagents making £7k a week or Tesco making £7k an hour.

 

[Admiral Huddy]

The other thing that crosses my mind, if you have an allergy that could actually kill you, as opposed to mild swelling/rashes etc. Why on earth would you not have asked at the till whether the item you're purchasing has such and such in it. A minor inconvenience to the staff, and perhaps the queue of customers, but would no doubt have saved this girls life.
.

You're not alone on this and was my exact opinion. I'd go a step further as say that if you knew an allergen that would kill you, why on earth would you trust any food vendor for that matter. Surely you just wouldn't take the risk.

As a tragedy that it is, it's just another witch hunt.

Tragic as this death is, if there was a common ingredient out there that I knew could kill me, I'd probably make all my own food.

 

[Semple]

I'm a bit confused by this as none of the reports seem to outright state it. Was there a label on the sandwich with the ingredients which sesame missing or was there no ingredients on the label at all?

There was no labelling ON the item of food. The UK law states that if it's a hand-made sandwich (rather than mass produced like a supermarket has), then individual labels do not need to placed on the item of food.

Pret do claim that they put ingredients/allergen info on signs (shelf label etc), and that they list their allergen info on paper and on their website (although both obviously requires you to ask/look).

 

[Tek81]

I just don't understand why they didn't ask the staff about the potential for the product to contain sesame. Especially if it was devoid of labelling. If they did ask and the staff said no, then that would be a different story. The family has said that Pret "played Russian roulette with her life." Without wanting to sound callous, I'd argue that it was the other way around. If you have such a severe allergy, surely you gather as much info as possible prior to purchase / consumption, as opposed to just assuming it's safe.

 

[MikeTheNative]

There was no labelling ON the item of food. The UK law states that if it's a hand-made sandwich (rather than mass produced like a supermarket has), then individual labels do not need to placed on the item of food.

Pret do claim that they put ingredients/allergen info on signs (shelf label etc), and that they list their allergen info on paper and on their website (although both obviously requires you to ask/look).

Ok thanks.

It seems rather odd that she did not check to me.

 

[cheesyboy]

@Angilion @Semple
I know about the epipens that were used, but was just surprised that the airline didn't have any extra on board.

Was more a comment on it generally seeming a good idea, than on this particular case.

 

[Rroff]

If it is the incident I think it was as tragic as it was if the allergy was as serious as they said it was then they really should have been a lot more careful as to what she was eating - types of food and the source of foods - if my child had that serious a condition there is no way I'd be feeding them stuff I hadn't prepared myself.

I just don't understand why they didn't ask the staff about the potential for the product to contain sesame. Especially if it was devoid of labelling. If they did ask and the staff said no, then that would be a different story. The family has said that Pret "played Russian roulette with her life." Without wanting to sound callous, I'd argue that it was the other way around. If you have such a severe allergy, surely you gather as much info as possible prior to purchase / consumption, as opposed to just assuming it's safe.

Based on the information that we have access to I agree - it sounds to me like her parents were not cautious enough given the supposed seriousness of her condition.

 

[touch]

The other thing that crosses my mind, if you have an allergy that could actually kill you, as opposed to mild swelling/rashes etc. Why on earth would you not have asked at the till whether the item you're purchasing has such and such in it. A minor inconvenience to the staff, and perhaps the queue of customers, but would no doubt have saved this girls life.

As I understood it, the label contained a list of ingredients of what was inside the sandwich which she checked through. It didn't list the ingredients in the bread which is where the sesame seeds were.

 

[Semple]

@Angilion @Semple
I know about the epipens that were used, but was just surprised that the airline didn't have any extra on board.

Was more a comment on it generally seeming a good idea, than on this particular case.

Don't quote me on the accuracy of this, but i was talking to a member of my family who's a teacher earlier in the year, the conversation was about a school trip and one of the students had an allergy of some sort requiring an epipen. His parents were told that if he forgot to bring his epipen in on the day that they were all leaving, that he wouldn't be able to go. I asked why the school wouldn't keep a few emergency epipens (forgetting an epipen must happen all the time). Apparently they're quite expensive, and don't have much of a shelf life.

Whilst i'm sure an airline would see many more more customer throughput than a school would, i guess the same principle applies in that it being one extra thing an airline then has to check for to ensure it's still "usable" etc.