Previous employer demanding cash

Trojan · 16 Mar 2006 at 18:58

Got home today to find a letter had come for my girlfriend from her previous employer, Centrica PLC. In a nutshell, they are saying that they overpaid her by £432.58 and want immediate payment :eek:

Now, she left the company in January and wasn't aware whatsoever that she'd been overpaid. If anything, she thought they'd underpaid her! Reason being that she was contracted to work 37 hours a week, however during the winter months she worked 42 hours a week. This was supposed to be made up in the summer months where she would have only worked 32 hours a week. With her leaving the company before summer however, this essentially left her not being paid for 5 hours a week throughout winter.

So, what legal rights do the company have regarding this? Even if on the off chance it turns out she has been overpaid, surely it's totally their mistake and as such should take the hit?

Davey_Pitch · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:00

Does she have all the payslips from her time at the company? Assuming all the payslips are present and correct (they add up to the extra amount they are demanding), then I believe it would go down as a company fault and they have to take the hit for it.

Sirrel Squirrel · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:01

They do have the right to claim money back but you're girl friend should get in touch and prove she hasn't been overpaid

rlm · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:02

They can legally take the money back, however I'd ask for details if possible and also make the case with the christmas hours. I can't remember for how many months after termination of employment they can still claim, but sadly they can, and very little can be done if it turns out to be legit.

Trojan · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:07

Davey_Pitch said:
Does she have all the payslips from her time at the company? Assuming all the payslips are present and correct (they add up to the extra amount they are demanding), then I believe it would go down as a company fault and they have to take the hit for it.

We were going to check for the payslips tomorrow, hopefully she still has them all. So you think that if I work out exactly what she should have been paid whilst at the company; then what she was actually paid; if the difference is the amount they're demanding we can tell them to do one?

Sirrel Squirrel said:
They do have the right to claim money back but you're girl friend should get in touch and prove she hasn't been overpaid

Just like that? A crappy letter in the post saying send us a cheque for £400?

rlm said:
They can legally take the money back, however I'd ask for details if possible and also make the case with the christmas hours. I can't remember for how many months after termination of employment they can still claim, but sadly they can, and very little can be done if it turns out to be legit.

There is simply no way she can afford £400 at the drop of a hat.

Sirrel Squirrel · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:09

Trojan said:
Just like that? A crappy letter in the post saying send us a cheque for £400?

Well I don't think it's just like that, they'd have to be able to prove it

Davey_Pitch · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:09

Trojan said:
We were going to check for the payslips tomorrow, hopefully she still has them all. So you think that if I work out exactly what she should have been paid whilst at the company; then what she was actually paid; if the difference is the amount they're demanding we can tell them to do one?

The way I see it (and I may well be wrong, so take what I say with a pinch of salt), if she was working 42 hours a week rather than 37, it's possible the extra hours worked, if paid to her, equal the amount they are trying to claim. She could easily claim it to be agreed overtime and the company have no rights to claim back any money she was paid for work she actually did.

Trojan · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:13

Sirrel Squirrel said:
Well I don't think it's just like that, they'd have to be able to prove it

This is the thing though, they've not sent ANY details other than they've overpaid her, then ask for a cheque for £432.58! As if anybody is going to turn round and say "Ok" and pay that.

Davey_Pitch said:
The way I see it (and I may well be wrong, so take what I say with a pinch of salt), if she was working 42 hours a week rather than 37, it's possible the extra hours worked, if paid to her, equal the amount they are trying to claim. She could easily claim it to be agreed overtime and the company have no rights to claim back any money she was paid for work she actually did.

Sounds fair. Cheers for that mate

SaBBz · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:17

The same thing happened to my girlfriend when she left Royal Mail. They decided that she had left the week before she did, where she was on sick pay, but they had already paid her for that week, even though she 'worked' it (she was willing to work but they didn't have anything for her where she could stay off her ankle). She also took more holiday than her allowance. They contacted her saying she owed something like £600. I went through her payslips and worked out how much she'd been overpaid and it was about £200. We sent a letter back to them stating this and they never replied.

Make sure to go through everything because they could be exaggerating, or not taking everything into account

Trojan · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:19

SaBBz said:
Make sure to go through everything because they could be exaggerating, or not taking everything into account

Will do mate, I'm damn certain that they aren't taking everything into account! Robbing ****s :mad:

danrok · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:20

If she has to pay it back there's no way they can force her to pay it back in one go straight away.

If she decides that she does owe the money, all she need do is write back and offer to pay them back at £20 per month or whatever.

SaBBz · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:20

I forgot to mention, first of all they just sent a bill. We replied and got a breakdown from which I showed she didn't owe that much

MoNkeE · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:24

Davey_Pitch said:
The way I see it (and I may well be wrong, so take what I say with a pinch of salt), if she was working 42 hours a week rather than 37, it's possible the extra hours worked, if paid to her, equal the amount they are trying to claim. She could easily claim it to be agreed overtime and the company have no rights to claim back any money she was paid for work she actually did.

I would have thought that depends on whether or not the company pay overtime. Where I work, Any extra hours we work are added to flex, not to overtime.

-RaZ

Trojan · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:27

I've just come across this item on the Citizens Advice Bureau which looks promising:

CAB said:
However, if your employer gave the impression that the wages were correct at the time they were paid, you did not know that you had been overpaid and you have spent the money (and to pay it back would put you in a worse financial position than if the overpayment had not been made) you should argue that you should not have to repay the money.

Everything they state there is correct in my girlfriends case. Therefore, what approach do you reckon we should follow? A formal letter, a phone call, blatently ignore them (

) or what?

danrok · 16 Mar 2006 at 19:30

If you are skint, it is always good to stress that point. Few people will put much effort into recovering £400 from someone who is skint. It's just not worth the time and effort.

Davey_Pitch · 16 Mar 2006 at 20:29

MoNkeE said:
I would have thought that depends on whether or not the company pay overtime. Where I work, Any extra hours we work are added to flex, not to overtime.

-RaZ

However it's noted, as long as the money they are trying to claim has been accounted for on the payslips for extra hours worked I believe they have zero rights to try to claim it back.

lozza · 16 Mar 2006 at 21:30

Firstly check the last payslip to determine what the extra money is for - if it's listed as overtime - then great you have no worries.

However if not, you need to check your gfs Contract of employment to see what the provisions are for overtime - if she was paid a salary she may not be entitled to overtime.

How long was there between the overpayment and the company contacting you requesting repayment?

The following information came from the www.acas.co.uk website when i was facing a similar overpayment situation

ACAS said:
Overpayment of Wages

Can employers recover overpaid wages?
Unders the common law principles, which a civil court would consider, this depends upon wheter the overpayment is due to a mistake of law or a mistake of fact.

What is a 'mistake of law'?
It is classed as a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of a policy and in these circumstances wages CANNOT be recovered.

What is a 'mistake of fact'?
It is seen for example as a clerical error, an accounting error, or a computer error. The employer is prevented from recovering the overpayment if the following conditions apply:

the employer has led the employee to believe that he or she is entitled to treat the money as their own

the employee has changed their position to the money, ie spent it

the overpayment was not caused primarily by the fault of the employee

Hope this helps, give ACAS a call see what they say

kibblerok · 16 Mar 2006 at 22:44

ask them for proof of the hours worked for the last few months.. unless they used a clocking in machine (which i doubt) they cant proove anything other than assupmtions and guess work of hours worked

manveruppd · 16 Mar 2006 at 23:20

Harib0 said:
What is a 'mistake of fact'?
It is seen for example as a clerical error, an accounting error, or a computer error. The employer is prevented from recovering the overpayment if the following conditions apply:

the employer has led the employee to believe that he or she is entitled to treat the money as their own
the employee has changed their position to the money, ie spent it
the overpayment was not caused primarily by the fault of the employee

Interesting info, this, and doesn't leave any employer much room to manouevre. Going from this it seems like the only times an employer can claim back the money is if the employee has logged more hours than they actually worked (and therefore the overpayment is the employee's fault), or, somehow (and I have no idea how this could possibly happen), the employer deposited more money in the employee's bank account than it said on the employee's payslip (and therefore didn't lead the employee to believe that they're entitled to the money). Even in these cases they'd have to claim it back pronto otherwise you could always call on the second condition, claiming you've already spent it. Have I got this right or am I misunderstanding something?

#Chri5# · 16 Mar 2006 at 23:35

Trojan said:
Everything they state there is correct in my girlfriends case. Therefore, what approach do you reckon we should follow? A formal letter, a phone call, blatently ignore them ( ) or what?

I would do everything by post. Firstly it leaves a paper trail should things go further and secondly, it allows a much more considered response than a phone conversation does.