Pro Cycling Discussion 2018

Soldato
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I dont think Sky have done themselves any favours in the way they have carried themselves and for sure I agree with you on the hypocrisy of how they portrayed themselves.

Do I think the French are manufacturing controversy around Sky, yes absolutely. There have been notable people stoking up the press all summer building up the the race.

Im sure plenty of teams have riders on dodgy TUEs that are lying low, there are definately teams that have convicted dopers either as riders or on the staff and as to micraculous rider transformations, look at Tom Domulin. He was and is a blindingly good ITTer but was not a Grand Tour rider of any note before the 2015 Vuelta and all of a sudden he is a GC contender/winner. What about Primoz Roglic who wasnt even a cyclist of any note and is now vying for the podium. Both Roglic and Domulin who are comparatively heavy compared with the pure climbers are climbing as good or better than the climbers and no one is questioning that.

If Sky are doping to get these miraculous rider transformations, does that mean all the ex Sky riders like Porte, Uran, Landa etc are dopers as well? Because they are competing against them now and either they are doping themselves or if they arent then surely they would come out and say something because they would be clean cyclists competing against dopers.
 
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Soldato
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That’s a strawman argument on so many levels but covered by the broad response that I never said other teams were riding clean. Dumoulin rides very similarly to Wiggins and we know now how he achieved that. There was a stark difference between Dumoulin in 2016 and pre-Giro where he showed up looking skeletal but with minimal loss of strength (if any) and he still destroyed the Worlds TT.

I do think there’s a misconception that mountain stages in the Tour historically have been the preserve of sub 60kg mountain goats. The longer stages have historically suited the rouleur types who have greater reserves to negotiate multiple cols. However, with the exception of Indurain, none of these GC riders have been winning/podiuming the Worlds TT until the last 5 or so years (Wiggins, Froome, Dumoulin). Something has changed to make that possible.

I could accept in the past rouleur types losing weight to become competitive in the mountains at the expense of TT performance, but now we have a crazy situation where the guys winning flat TTs and MTFs are the same riders.

People like Quintana, Chaves, the Yates’s, Porte (if he could finish a GT) just don’t have the same reserves these guys have into the third week. They consistently have to work harder as a percentage of their thresholds (smaller rider = less absolute power) over the duration of the entire race and can only climb at similar w/kg to the bigger guys who have somehow stripped fat without shedding any of their power.

Previously you’d say you need the right balance of TT and mountain miles to level the playing field, but these days it makes no difference.
 
Soldato
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Its not a strawman at all but taking the discussion to its logical conclusion. If a team that dopes has top riders that leaves that team, it would logically follow that the rider that leaves either continually dopes or if they cease to dope then they would knowingly ride against a team that does and it would be strange for them to keep quiet.

Personally I think cycling is in pretty good health if all that the people wetting themselves over is an asthma medicine that doesnt have any performance enhancing effects taken in the dosages that have been consumed.
 
Soldato
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I agree with Roady, the people that really damaged cycling were the UCI and the various French comentators (Hinault, La Partient, Madiot) which stoked up the French press. Then on top of that, Brailsford should keep his mouth shut as he hasnt helped at all and again today shot his mouth off.

The MPCC is a pointless organisation. If the organisations rules are genuinely credible, then it should be incorporated into the UCI rule book, there is no need for the organisation to exist.

I agree with pretty much all you've said in these last couple of pages.

On the Brailsford issue above, its probably worth noting that he's had to put up with this for YEARS now. If you or I were subject to annual abuse for years for being pretty darned good at my job (i.e. winning the TdF), I'm pretty sure I'd come to the point of snapping. I'm also pretty sure that Brailsford will have gone down the nicely-nicely route for years. But there's only so much you can take, professional or not.
 
Soldato
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On to today, I've literally no idea what will happen or how it will play out. Thoughts of an early attack and going hard from the off for people lower down, or sky getting their men on the front to control it straight from the off at a tough pace and whittling it down to a small selective group straight away?

Or will it be a complete damp squib?
 
Soldato
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On to today, I've literally no idea what will happen or how it will play out. Thoughts of an early attack and going hard from the off for people lower down, or sky getting their men on the front to control it straight from the off at a tough pace and whittling it down to a small selective group straight away?

Or will it be a complete damp squib?

I'm with you here. It's 50/50 as to whether this blows things to pieces and is very entertaining.... or it'll be a complete borefest and nothing will materialise of it.
With only one proper mountain stage left tomorrow.... Bardet, Quintana, Dumoulin have to do something today. Yates looked strong yesterday and this sort of thing may tickle the fancy of Dan Martin and Alaphillipe to crack on as well. So it certainly does have the capability to be mental.

Dumoulin needs the GC gap down to the 30-40s but I don't think a massive early attack and hang on will work on the terrain, even for him. If it is still together on the 3rd mountain today then he can hopefully go balls out and munch some time today and hang on tomorrow to ensure he is touching distance on the TT which he should dominate.

All the others in the GC need to absolutely smash today and also probably get time tomorrow as they will lose time to either Sky blokes in the TT. It's all on Dumoulin IMO.
I think Froome will lose time today, G will not. Calling it now.
 
Associate
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I hate gimmicks. Hopefully the riders will send a message by going off slowly and forming up into the usual Peleton.
 
Soldato
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I'm with you here. It's 50/50 as to whether this blows things to pieces and is very entertaining.... or it'll be a complete borefest and nothing will materialise of it.
I'm going to go with nothing much happens. The guys who want to be at the front (breakaway contenders and domestiques) are going to start from the back and there will be panic to try and get them to the front. I predict several crashes in the first few miles but as the GC guys will all be at the front anyway they wont lose out.

Can somebody forward this clip to Neymar please?

Broken knee cap. Still got back on his bike and rode 60k to the finish!
Doesn't look too good this morning:
HjhNBPY.jpg
 
Soldato
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Much of a muchness so far. Movistar/ag2r agreement pre stage currently looking at it?

They should have put time gaps between each phase so anyone bridging up would have to put an effort in which would have limited what they could do for team leaders
 
Associate
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Now we're talking. Quintana goes and Froome follows. Thomas unable to stick with him. Froome could easily make up the time gap today.

Edit: Looks like he's playing the team game. I'd rather see him put the hammer down
 
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Soldato
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possibly one of the best stages of the year - all sorts going on!

Very interesting stuff now with G's lead......

Will Froome attack him on another day? Is he done?
 
Soldato
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That's it now Sky, BACK YOUR MAN! Geraint has to be proven to be the strongest rider now.

Part of me thinks that this was Sky's plan all along, for a Thomas win. I don't know why many journo's aren't even mooting that as a strategy, but if it actually was (and we may never know!) it was a genius move by Team Sky. Perhaps they knew Froome was still tired from the Giro and that really their best bet was the man who just won the Dauphine....? All part of a big plan? I think so...

Not counting chickens quite yet, one nervy spring stage, one big mountain stage and a TT to go...
 
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