Problem with used car we bought

MassiveJim

MassiveJim

MassiveJim

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Bought a used car from a local forecourt back in july/August.
VW Tiguan 2010, 2.0 TDI 140bhp 2WD
On viewing the car had a bit of a rattle which went away with the clutch fully down.

Dealer agreed to replace clutch/flywheel.
Was still a bit of noise when we came to pick it up but dealer said the clutch had been replaced we either accept a refund of deposit or take the car as is and if it gets worse he will help out with repair etc.
Note dealer has his own garage/mechanics.
2nd note, this is not my car it is my partners and I rarely drive it.

fast forward to December I take the car to a local remapper and have it remapped which I think took it up to 180/190bhp, and around 45ft/lb extra torque.
When i collect the car the remapper says there was a rattle before we mapped it which is now worse, we think it is the clutch or flywheel.
Driving home it is pretty bad, flooring it at around 1800 - 2500 rpm results in quite bad juddering/noise from the gearbox side of engine bay. But the engine is fine the dyno printout shows a nice smooth curve and the remapper is happy there are no engine problems.
I spoke to my partner about it when I got home and she says "yeh its always done that but its my first diesel so I didn't know if it was normal or not" *facepalm*

Before I go any further with the story (there is quite a bit more to it) I assume at this point any warranty or consumer rights are out of the window at this point ?

also worth mentioning that the original map has been put back on and it still has the problem just not as bad.
i do also need to mention the clutch and flywheel kit fitted to the car came from these guys
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.ncduk.com
which I believe is causing the problem.
 
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Even ignoring the complications added by the remapping, I think you'd have trouble going back after 6 months to try and get a resolution on something that could be argued to be consumable, that you admit yourself was present when you bought it.

Whilst you can't sign away your consumer rights and 'sold as seen' isn't a thing for consumer sales like this, buying the vehicle when it still made a noise after a new clutch/flywheel was probably not the cleverest thing to do.

As an aside, what kind of remapper identifies a noise like that and decides "sod it I'll remap it anyway" rather than phoning you to say the car sounds a bit broken and maybe more torque and power might be best avoided for the time being.
 
If the rattle goes away when you push the pedal I'd say this is input shaft bearing or something gearbox related, not clutch.

A remap is the perfect get out claus for any warranty claim so if you think you may be needing that in future then I'd remove it ASAP.
 
Kenai said:
Whilst you can't sign away your consumer rights and 'sold as seen' isn't a thing for consumer sales like this, buying the vehicle when it still made a noise after a new clutch/flywheel was probably not the cleverest thing to do.
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Agreed, however car drove fine and there was an agreement in place that it was likely something minor (wasn't a particularly loud noise by the way) and if it did worsen that the selling garage would carry out further work and we would go 50/50 on a recon gearbox (or whatever was needed) so my thinking that if it does get worse £250 isn't a bad deal to resolve it later.

Kenai said:
As an aside, what kind of remapper identifies a noise like that and decides "sod it I'll remap it anyway" rather than phoning you to say the car sounds a bit broken and maybe more torque and power might be best avoided for the time being.
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Yeh not sure how bad it was on the rollers, they described it as "a bit of a rattle" but on the road it was pretty bad between 1800 - 2500 rpm, it is also worse in 4th/3rd so maybe wasn't "that bad" on rollers in 5th/6th gear which is what I think they use to remap it, either way I do agree with your point. That being said it is a well respected mapper 4.7 stars on google from 44 reviews. I have had a car mapped there in the past, as well as my current car (Octavia VRS), and my brother had his done there recently also.

Funky-Melon said:
If the rattle goes away when you push the pedal I'd say this is input shaft bearing or something gearbox related, not clutch.

A remap is the perfect get out claus for any warranty claim so if you think you may be needing that in future then I'd remove it ASAP.
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The OP is an over simplification of events, I am merely at this point trying to get an understanding of how the remap affects my rights, and just for clarification the remap is also off the car now by the way.
 
If the remapper noticed a rattle before mapping it, I can't see how him going ahead has helped the situation here.

Looks like you had transmission/clutch issues all along and the remap has probably finished it off. The supplying dealer will tell you to jog on as you've modified the car (quite rightly) - I think your biggest mistake was buying it with the noise still present after the "repair" in the first place.

As Kenai says
what kind of remapper identifies a noise like that and decides "sod it I'll remap it anyway" rather than phoning you to say the car sounds a bit broken and maybe more torque and power might be best avoided for the time being.
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Forget the warranty, the ECU will already show a TD1 flag on it and that means no VW dealer would get authority for warranty work. Best bet is a good independent to look at it for you and put an upgraded clutch in if the clutch bearing is the problem.
 
Flywheels common as much on them mate, do at least 1 a week on the Transporters which are same engine combo
 
Kenai said:
As an aside, what kind of remapper identifies a noise like that and decides "sod it I'll remap it anyway" rather than phoning you to say the car sounds a bit broken and maybe more torque and power might be best avoided for the time being.
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Totally this.

On topic: Sounds like the DMF has gone
 
Buys a car with known fault....

I mean... really? Id of walked away at that point, either the car is perfect driving it away or some other loser can.
 
Think you're just going to have to deal with this one yourself. Realistically, you'll have no come back with the trader just on the amount of time that has elapsed alone. Adding on that you have remapped the car means you have absolutely no comeback whatsoever.

Either live with it as a quirk on an old car, or take it to a mechanic to be looked at.

Also, I would hazard a guess that the trader replaced the clutch plate only and didn't do the flywheel. Flywheels cost about 4-5 times more than the clutch plate and I can't imagine for one second some dodgy backstreet trader is just going to suck up a £600+ parts bill + labour.
 
Gaygle said:
Think you're just going to have to deal with this one yourself. Realistically, you'll have no come back with the trader just on the amount of time that has elapsed alone. Adding on that you have remapped the car means you have absolutely no comeback whatsoever.

Either live with it as a quirk on an old car, or take it to a mechanic to be looked at.

Also, I would hazard a guess that the trader replaced the clutch plate only and didn't do the flywheel. Flywheels cost about 4-5 times more than the clutch plate and I can't imagine for one second some dodgy backstreet trader is just going to suck up a £600+ parts bill + labour.
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Sounds like they didn't even replace the clutch (OP said rattle was still there just less severe) - either they just tweaked the clutch hydraulics, bent the clutch fork slightly or packed the release bearing with grease to take away some of the rattle.
 
Kenai said:
.

.

As an aside, what kind of remapper identifies a noise like that and decides "sod it I'll remap it anyway" rather than phoning you to say the car sounds a bit broken and maybe more torque and power might be best avoided for the time being.
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the one thats wants to be paid lol.

seriously get another mechanic to give a opinion and just to be safe price up a recon gearbox and new flywheel /clutch etc. then ask the original garage nicely they may still honour the 50/50 with them doing the work but you have to ask and providing you did your homework on prices you will know if they genuinly are aiming for 50/50 split or more.

as regards walking away from the sale , it may have been the ideal vehicle at the time , i have done similar knowing i could either do the work or get it done , only really been caught out buying a honda with a rattling timing chain which drove lovely for 200 miles home but before the timing chain kit arrived managed to eat itself and i had to replace the engine (grrrr twice but thats another story ).

i hope it is just a flywheel but if not the box will have to come out anyway .....
 
I’d hate to be a second hand car sales person. Does anyone take responsibility for their own purchases of ten year old cars anymore?
 
Look at the reviews of the place the car dealer bought the clutch kit from. (Link in op)
I believe that they have changed the clutch and flywheel, but that the clutch is not a genuine new luk one.
And judging by the reviews of the place, I believe that is where the problem lies.
The car is booked in to have clutch and flywheel replaced with genuine new kit by the way.

I'm just trying to understand where I stand with consumer rights is all, which I think has pretty much been answered.
Seller has been aware of the fault since December by the way.
 
Knows there is something wrong with the car.... thinks its a good idea to get it remapped....
 
kindai said:
Buys a car with known fault....

I mean... really? Id of walked away at that point, either the car is perfect driving it away or some other loser can.
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Absolutely... And then to remap knowing that it adds extra strain to the running gears which is already showing problem signs is nuts!

Unfortunately OP I think you will need to foot the bill here and just chalk it up as experience.
 
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