"Professonal People"

[h4rm0ny]

A close friend of mine is applying for British citizenship. They've passed the (surprisingly difficult, I found) citizenship test and stumped up the £1,300 required. They now need two referees. The problem is it specifies 'people of professional standing'. Giving examples of being a magistrate, doctor, solicitor (not your own) or accountant.

I was going to be one of her referees but now we're worried that me - a humble "Senior Programmer" - would be rejected. It's the same sort of mumbo-jumbo I recall from my first passport application long, long ago. Basically, someone with a "professional" reputation who would vouch for you. Trouble is, we no longer all live in little villages with a family doctor we've known for years, we never meet our bank manager, and short of heaving a brick with our names on it through the nearest window, we're unlikely to meet a magistrate.

So my question is how strict do you think they'll be on this? She's worried if we try and it falls through, they might reject the application and she'll lose the money having to try again. I suspect they'd simply ask for a different referee but do you think they'd actually reject someone who wasn't a doctor or similar? I'm self-employed, pay a tonne of tax and think I'm pretty upstanding personally. But now she's got me worried about it also.

 

[h4rm0ny]

If you're self employed than you're surely a company director? That's good enough.

Well, a company of one. Which is probably for the best, I would be the worst boss ever. You're probably joking but settling on an actual job title is something I find quite difficult. I do so many different things, including project management. Collapsing everything down to a clearly defined role just doesn't happen.

Look likes it's a bit more strict than your thinking according to this, you need to know them personally for 3 years and be a respected member of a community.

https://www.liuk.co.uk/uk-naturalisation/

List

https://www.gov.im/media/624353/listofreferees.pdf

I'd just phone them up ask if you would qualify.

Thanks. I've known my friend for nearly a decade and I have no problem vouching for them. They're at "running through a field of wheat" levels of misbehaviour and they're a close friend. Yes - that list is the same as is on the form she has to fill out. The comments on the page show a lot of people in a similar position which is interesting. Thanks a lot.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Write Company Director on the form, problem solved.

I think that would be fraud. I act as a Sole Trader legally. Fines of up to £5,000 and / or three months in prison for falsifying information on this form!

 

[h4rm0ny]

A doctor is one. If she has a GP and as been seeing them for the required time then ask them to vouch for her. If shes seen multiple doctors then ask the others. Some might charge a fee.

The list @jsmoke posted seems to be the official list.

I think most GPs wont do this anymore. Not unless you actually are a personal friend. And I think being paid to be a referee for someone might actually be illegal. It seems ethically dodgy at least. In any case, you just get a rotating list of GP's you don't know these days. We don't have that, I'm afraid.

I've done this before for a friend in a similar situation - however I was a member of the BCS.
You could probably join as a Professional member if you've been working in IT for a while - automatic elevation to respected member of the community

That actually crossed my mind before posting and I looked up membership fees and requirements. It's a hundred something plus per annum but I actually wouldn't mind joining. I'm not clear on what benefits I actually get from membership though and I'd need someone to sponsor my application apparently.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Says director of a limited company as an option so you could change from sole trader to limited company, better double check on fraud status etc.

Conceivably that might not actually be a bad idea at some point just for my own benefit, but tall order to get all that sorted right now. She's quite keen to get this sorted sooner rather than later. I think there was something on the news recently that spooked her. Brixit? Broxit? Something like that.

Look likes it's a bit more strict than your thinking according to this, you need to know them personally for 3 years and be a respected member of a community.

https://www.liuk.co.uk/uk-naturalisation/

List

https://www.gov.im/media/624353/listofreferees.pdf

I'd just phone them up ask if you would qualify.

I tracked down the UK list (which turned out to be the same as the Isle of Man one so far as I could tell) and it had Engineer on there. I certainly am, imo. A bit of detective work ferreted out a phone number (wasn't easy) and I called them up. A very helpful person said I'd be okay as a referee so long as I had an engineering qualification. I have a BSc. in Computer Science, fwiw. We're still a little edgy about it now just because it's so important.

Tough one, good chance she won't get in really, you can see why people get annoyed when immigrants get in and also get all the benefits.

She owns a house. She's been here for... 12, 15 years? Honestly, someone who's paid as much tax as she has over the years and zero criminal record should be in pretty good standing, imo.

Working class. No trust?

Pretty much, imo. It's a little archaic, seeking someone who has a professional reputation that would be at stake, maybe. Or perhaps it's really just as classist as it seems on the surface. In any case, even though the official documentation is long out of date imo, the person I spoke to gave the impression they're more modern in practice. Have a degree in a "professional" field, and that probably counts. Still pretty snobbish, though. Heaven forbid the opinion of plumbers and machinists be acceptable. Even though I've seen people make very respectable livings out of these things.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I can think of an MP who’d probably enjoy getting a visitor at the moment. Better be quick though as she might not be considered a professional for much longer.

Pretty soon, she'll only be allowed visitors on certain days.

There are some very questionable professions on that list.

christian science practitioner
photographer (professional)
designated premises supervisors
broker

LOL! I hadn't even noticed "Christian Science practitioner". What even is that? Is it like a physicist who prays "Please God, let it work this time" or something?

 

[h4rm0ny]

Ah, so not a company. I think people automatically assume that most people self employed in IT have set up a Ltd company.

I know a lot do. I think because you could avoid certain tax by having an intermediary company handle you or something. Never really seemed ethical to me so I wasn't bothered when the government closed that particular loophole last year. I've never minded paying taxes, only minded what the government spends it on!

Useful comment about the GP's doing it for a fee. I'm surprised that's legal. I'll pass it along.

I think having talked to someone about it I'd probably be fine as a referee but she's - understandably - not wanting to take any risks.

 

[h4rm0ny]

No. It's faith healing.

TBH OP, just put your profession down as part time christian science practitioner.

If anyone questions it invite them round for a session. Then when it doesn't work you can ask them to start a thread in speaker corner. They'll soon give up.

What do I do if they get better? As Terry Pratchett remarked: some people will get better from anything.