Programming Advice.

CemeteryBloom · 1 Feb 2019 at 18:34

Hey guys,

So I've decided to get into programming but don't really know where to start or what path to choose. At the moment is very much like to keep it as a hobby but if it becomes interesting what sort of routes would you take for a career path?

Any advice on where to begin learning this side of the technology would be greatly appreciated.

AHarvey · 1 Feb 2019 at 18:38

The first question is, what kind of programming? What do you want to be making and on what platform?

Python is a good first language for complete noobs, it'll run on any OS, you can develop software and website with it as well as mobile apps.

CemeteryBloom · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:01

AHarvey said:
The first question is, what kind of programming? What do you want to be making and on what platform?

Python is a good first language for complete noobs, it'll run on any OS, you can develop software and website with it as well as mobile apps.

I don't have any real plan for it because I don't know where to start, I'm just looking for the best way to get into it and the proper way to learn it.

I've also read that Ruby is quite good, do you need any certain amount of specs with running Python and what's the best the place to start with it?

Randomface74 · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:05

Two paths can work:
- Computer Science degree
- trainee "learn on the job" role

BongoHunter · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:05

CemeteryBloom said:
I don't have any real plan for it because I don't know where to start, I'm just looking for the best way to get into it and the proper way to learn it.

I've also read that Ruby is quite good, do you need any certain amount of specs with running Python and what's the best the place to start with it?

Python shouldn't require an awesome PC to run on - Go is quite vouge and has good career options at the mo, have a look here: www.golang.org

Edit: you need something to apply the lessons to, a use case as it were, E.G what about an app that will discover devices on your home network? You need real world examples in my experience to understand what the value and power of programming

Java might be a good shout?

JasonM · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:07

Download the Visual Studio IDE below

https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/

Then look at beginning C# YouTube video and take it from there.

i started coding back in 1980 (i'm 45 now), you just have to jump in and start somewhere. It was hard back in 1980 as you only had books that came with the computer, and no one else new anything, our school did not even have a computer teacher back then. It's all changed now with the internet.

jsmoke · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:12

Really hard to advise in this day and age with so many lanaguges, I used to say start with C++ but it's possibly not as relevant as it was years ago. You could try Java, it still the primary language for Android development and closely related to Javascript and apparently still the most uysed language in the world.

But many new languages such as Kotlin.

It's hard to remember that far back but I seem to remember C++ being pretty tough at first and generally a language for your real skilled programmers. Maybe decide if you want to go mobile or desktop or web. Specialise in one language.

The only languages I knew were, C/C++, VB6, C# and PHP. But many out there.

BongoHunter · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:16

jsmoke said:
But many new languages such as Kotlin.

Kotlin is lovely - great interoperability with Java and good developer tools for free from JetBrains

AHarvey · 1 Feb 2019 at 20:24

CemeteryBloom said:
I don't have any real plan for it because I don't know where to start, I'm just looking for the best way to get into it and the proper way to learn it.

I've also read that Ruby is quite good, do you need any certain amount of specs with running Python and what's the best the place to start with it?

I've no experience of Ruby but I know it's often compared with Python.

Get on Facebook to the Python Programming Society group and bang an invite to join in, say you're from here and I'll OK the application.

Lots of resources on there.

You're looking at learning Python 3 now really. Lots of free resources and you can even get some online comp science degree level courses for free. Not the same as the real thing but lots of info.

billysielu said:
Two paths can work:
- Computer Science degree
- trainee "learn on the job" role

Or teach yourself, get involved in some online groups and opensource projects. The degree is what a 2-4 year journey and on the job learning roles don't exist.

Bobie8 · 2 Feb 2019 at 14:28

CemeteryBloom said:
I don't have any real plan for it because I don't know where to start, I'm just looking for the best way to get into it and the proper way to learn it.

I've also read that Ruby is quite good, do you need any certain amount of specs with running Python and what's the best the place to start with it?

If your looking for a career change, personally I would look at what companies in your local area are recruiting for and use that to narrow down which language to start with unless it's C or C++ they're probably not the best to start with.
If your looking to start more of a hobby and just see where you end up I'd go with python there is lots of different areas from desktop apps, webdev, data science and machine learning / AI using python.
If mobile apps take your fancy then its Java for android and Swift for IOS but as others have said you can get other languages to run on them.
Finally if games take your fancy Id look at the unity engine and learn C#.

Python Crash Course: A Hands on, Projected Based Introduction to Programming is a really good start and will take you through the basic syntax before doing 3 projects including a basic 2D game, some data visualization and a web app.

Hades · 3 Feb 2019 at 09:31

My recommendation would be to pick a language and then follow a free tutorial on YouTube. The editor you install would be better served as the one that the tutorial uses.

It doesn't really matter at this stage what the language is or what editor you use. At this stage you just need to learn the concepts. You can change languages later if you find you like programming and want to code something specific (some languages are better suited to some types of programming than others).

Web development is nice because you can instantly see the results of your work. But conversely I find that HTML and CSS (which are prerequisites for is) work very differently to true programming languages. So I probably would not recommend these at first.

So my recommendation is to start with Python. This is one of the easier languages and doesn't need any special tools installed apart from the Python interpreter itself.

pmwpaul · 28 Feb 2019 at 20:01

Well done Hades! it took 9 replies before anyone mentioned learning the fundamentals of coding. If you can learn to code and the logical concepts behind it you can then learn the syntax of a specific languaage and then see how to apply it. The basics principles of sequence, selection and interation haven't changed for decades. When I learned to code we didn't go near a keyboard for a month

AHarvey · 28 Feb 2019 at 20:38

pmwpaul said:
Well done Hades! it took 9 replies before anyone mentioned learning the fundamentals of coding. If you can learn to code and the logical concepts behind it you can then learn the syntax of a specific languaage and then see how to apply it. The basics principles of sequence, selection and interation haven't changed for decades. When I learned to code we didn't go near a keyboard for a month

You do realise that everyone that suggested watching tutorials for noobs has automatically suggested learning the fundamentals? Every decent video tutorial serious out there covers the same basic principles, it may happen at different rates and at different stages but it's all covered.

Hades · 1 Mar 2019 at 07:46

pmwpaul said:
Well done Hades! it took 9 replies before anyone mentioned learning the fundamentals of coding. If you can learn to code and the logical concepts behind it you can then learn the syntax of a specific languaage and then see how to apply it. The basics principles of sequence, selection and interation haven't changed for decades. When I learned to code we didn't go near a keyboard for a month

Welcome to the forum

I had already taught myself to program in the early 1980's on a VIC20. But when we later learned at school they took the same approach; we learned the concepts, flowcharted it and then wrote psuedo code on paper to start with. When we eventually did code something it was on punched cards and it was sent away to the local university to run. It invariably came back with a syntax error which we corrected and sent off again the next week... and again... and again...

AHarvey said:
You do realise that everyone that suggested watching tutorials for noobs has automatically suggested learning the fundamentals? Every decent video tutorial serious out there covers the same basic principles, it may happen at different rates and at different stages but it's all covered.

Yes they do cover the same topics. But most tutorials don't generally set out that the language itself isn't too important at this stage (although some do). It's obvious to old farts like us as we can see that fundamentally nothing much has changed over the years. But to someone completely new who doesn't know the first thing about programming it may be less obvious unless explicitely called out.

NickK · 20 Mar 2019 at 10:50

Can I ask why you want to start programming?

As a developer - at least for the larger firms - you’re competing globally.

For the record - I did a BSc software engineering degree 92-96 had many roles and currently have 9 cross functional teams - including business analysts, solution architects, devops and testers.

Learning a language is simple learning the syntax with pros/cons and ways of achieving in that language.

The greater question is what problem are you attempting to solve and understanding how to achieve that regardless of language.

That is the difference between the academic learning route (understanding concepts and basic frameworks of why things are done) vs learning on the job where you’re learning good and bad habits but may learn from reality rather than academia.

If I was doing a degree again I would do maths and data for machine learning and quantum computing. To go up the value chain - being able to say how to solve business problems correctly rather than just throwing ML libraries into the code without truly understanding it or the framework of stringent review.

morbid42 · 22 Mar 2019 at 07:42

Learn Python, it is an easy language that used to be considered for novices and kids to start programming. It is now very important to IT and the future

morbid42 · 22 Mar 2019 at 07:53

NickK said:
That is the difference between the academic learning route (understanding concepts and basic frameworks of why things are done) vs learning on the job where you’re learning good and bad habits but may learn from reality rather than academia.

A very good point. I have seen and had to work with, many young ones (21-26) who look excellent on paper - it degrees, blockchain, ai, cognitive learning etc, and when you actually work with them, they are useless - no job experience.

It is disturing though that consultancies snap these people up, give them £250 a day and charge £750 (plus additional costs) a day, and the recruiting company often overlooks the person with experience (and the business knowledge) sitting in the workplace, that would do it for £50k, and actually produce results that work

jsmoke · 22 Mar 2019 at 07:55

morbid42 said:
A very good point. I have seen and had to work with, many young ones (21-26) who look excellent on paper - it degrees, blockchain, ai, cognitive learning etc, and when you actually work with them, they are useless - no job experience.

It is disturing though that consultancies snap these people up, give them £250 a day and charge £750 (plus additional costs) a day, and the recruiting company often overlooks the person with experience (and the business knowledge) sitting in the workplace, that would do it for £50k, and actually produce results that work

So how do these people actually do anything productive that justifies £250 per day if they can't really code.

AndyCr15 · 22 Mar 2019 at 08:29

For me it really helped to have a purpose. I had a particular app in mind, that I would want to run on an Android device, so I started with Java and quickly moved to Android. I then had other App ideas I wanted to do and that's what drives you to learn.

Then I wanted to make my own website, which drove learning HTML, CSS and PHP and a little later SQL.

I'm by no means an expert in any of these now, but learning as you work towards a goal is the best way in my eyes.

NickK · 22 Mar 2019 at 09:44

morbid42 said:
A very good point. I have seen and had to work with, many young ones (21-26) who look excellent on paper - it degrees, blockchain, ai, cognitive learning etc, and when you actually work with them, they are useless - no job experience.

However it's a 50:50 - on the flip side those that have worked only in the industry often don't have the wider stills that university trained engineers do. Often they will hit limits and continue todo the same thing as they progress up the ladder.

It all depends on the circumstance and the individuals. After all Einstein trained himself in maths whilst doing copyright clerking and didn't understand the standard ways of shortening the work required but required help from mathematician friends.

I'm actually going back to learning maths right now - I did my A levels years ago including maths, however I have just bought A level text books to relearn what I have forgotten then move into adding more about learning about quantum computing.

morbid42 said:
It is disturing though that consultancies snap these people up, give them £250 a day and charge £750 (plus additional costs) a day, and the recruiting company often overlooks the person with experience (and the business knowledge) sitting in the workplace, that would do it for £50k, and actually produce results that work

I used to work for a consultancy for 12 years in various markets. Both in programmes and in proper products developed to be sold.

1-3 years they are inexperienced but learning, at 3 years they start leading teams.
5 years they start project managing
then at 10 years they're pretty much part of the office furniture.