Cheers codec, it seems there are a few too many people in here that have quite obviously missed the point or are far too quick to jump to uninformed opinions - sound like perfect PM material, hyuk huck!
Project managers
- Thread starter nero120
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Cheers codec, it seems there are a few too many people in here that have quite obviously missed the point or are far too quick to jump to uninformed opinions - sound like perfect PM material, hyuk huck!
Well for one I didn't expect so many people making such blatant accusations about competancy, etc considering this was obviously a rant thread and I gave brealy any details to the context.
Considering the amount of PMs in this thread (whether they admit it or not) and the "oh you don't sound like th kind of person I would want to work with" comments, they certainly never fail to live up to their reputation.
I love the fact that people on here are banding accusations around, when the only accusation I can be held guilty to the mob that is the OCUK poster is not providing enough detail. Still, I wouldn't expect a PM to know the difference.
Sigh. If you'd actually read the thread you would have discovered that I HAVE said that there are good PMs, and there is nothing more I like better than working with a good PM. Unfortunately, most PMs I've worked with have not been good. That is my experience, so deal with it.
Why? Because this is a PM bashing thread!
If it offends your sensitivities then rest assurd in the fact that you (think you) are a good PM!
Currys are not PMs!
Honestly, you may think I'm being beligerant but from every developer I've ever spoken to, they have worked with far more bad PMs than good ones. It's the nature of the role, you don't need any real qualifications to do it and the fact that you can earn a decent wage draws in all sorts. Unfortuantely, a lot of people who clearly won't make good PMs get hired. Probably due to the fact that the demand far outstrips the supply of good PMs, and it's very difficult to judge a good PM in an interview.
This obviously doesn't happen with devs as they need to have proven technical qualifications and experience, and if you can't do the job it's a lot harder to justify than if you were a PM.
This could also be why every UK government IT project ever started has run ridiculously over budget and often the spec is completely unfit for purpose.
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Why would I bother, as has been said NUMEROUS times already, this is a RANT thread. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? Being that it is a RANT thread, I would expect anyone with half a brain to recognise this (clue: angry smiley as thread icon) and realise that I may not be providing all the details, so probably not the best basis to form an opinion of my competancy...
I'm not trying to convince anyone, but clearly there are people in this thread who understand what I'm talking about.
Little devs with chips on their shoulders don't last very long. Crap PMs do. Go figure.
This isn't about forming a general consensus of the quality of the average PM, it's a rant thread! I don't expect anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as me to see it as valid, and I'm not trying to convince them!
It seems to me that many people here have unnecessarily taken these comments personally, and to those people, if they are not PMs, I would have to wonder why.
How many rant threads do you see on OCUK? Do you feel the need to weigh out the pros and cons of the stated opinion in those threads?
So, repeat after me: "He's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting..."
Oh, more of those razor sharp instincts eh? Nice!
Just imagine how big your pay check would be if you were a PM
Probably not as big as a MOSS architect's.
Judging by this thread, PM's earn every penny for having to deal with IT 'tards who believe their work is an artform rather than simply a means of getting something done, to a certain specification, within a budget.
Much akin to IT support moaning that people don't understand PCs and go to them with petty problems - generally because people couldn't give a crap about how long you've been building computers, how 'any n00b' knows how to do something, how things are so 'obvious', they just want the thing on their desk to do what it's supposed to do so they can get on with their job
Not the same thing at all. Devs need good PMs, and crap ones do nothing but make our lives a misery. It's got nothing to do with arrogance or a lack of understanding, it's all about meeting your responsibilities and doing your job well, something that most PMs I have worked with know nothing about.
Are you really this ignorant or just doing it to amuse me?
You are uninformed because you know nothing about me or my situation. The only thing you know is that I had a rant, if you think this is enough information for you to make character assessments then please do go on, your making yourself look like the village idiot is quite amusing!
God you are stupid.
SharePoint architect: £62,500 (average over last 3 months)
Contracting rates go through the roof.
I apologise, I'm just getting pretty tired of having to repeat myself to you because you seem determined to not read what I'm posting.
Obviously you know nothing about me so any accusation you make against my competancy is irrelevant, but I suppose you are entitled to your opinions.
You seem to have taken this whole thing quite personally. You are a PM, right? I can't remember if you denied it earlier.
At least this is the impression I get from a 'non-IT' professional role where things like giving accurate estimates and working to set budgets and deadlines is far from an outrageous request but rather an absolute necessity
In the industries I've worked in, I've never seen a dev who was unhelpful towards the project, though some are more pro active than others. It tends to be that devs manage the micro project that is their task set and communicate to the PM how long it will take and regular progress. It is the PMs job to make sure everyone has what they need to do the work and resources are booked in time. If the project fails in a professional organisation, it is rarely (if ever) because a dev had a chip on their shoulder, you just can't get away with it.
Ah I see. Out of interest, are you working on enterprise systems?