PS3 - Cost and release problems due to Blu-ray?

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Following the Blu-ray announcements at the end of last week I can't help but wonder about the PS3's release date.

Sony announced last week that Blu-Ray will have its launch in early Summer. Pioneer's first player will hit the streets in June at a whopping $1800 RRP, with Phillips and Sony also releasing players. I doubt we'll see any players for less than $1000 in the first few months.

So my first question is, if Sony sells the PS3 for around $499 (reasonable guess atm!) how the hell can they bundle a Blu-Ray player for only $200 more (guessing the cost split here!). Even if the player was really basic I don't see how they could manage it without taking a huge profit loss on each console.
When the PS2 first came out, it was at least 3 years after the release of DVD, so putting one in a console wasn't too tough.

Second question (or observation) is that if the first top-of-the-line players are out in June, then at the earliest the PS3 will be released in Japan in June. So I guess Xmas in the UK might just be possible :D

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but the cost thing really does baffle me! Unless of course the early adopter players made by Pioneer etc. are hi-fi spec, but that wouldn't make sense as you'd think they'd all try and release the cheapest possible player to make sure they bury HD-DVD :confused:
 
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Console manufacturers nowadays always make a loss on console's with the hope they recoup vast sums from the games and accessories.

I suppose it depends on how much Sony can afford to lose per console. Although I've read that their having a lean patch at the moment so this may be a bit of a financial gamble for them.
 

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i hear they r having problems getting the cell chip up to a certian quality needed for production
 
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XPE said:
i hear they r having problems getting the cell chip up to a certian quality needed for production

That could be another problem. But I can see that my thread title may be a bit misleading. What I meant to ask was, how can Sony possibly afford to but a Blu-Ray player inside a console so early in the format's life?
 

XPE

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Raider said:
That could be another problem. But I can see that my thread title may be a bit misleading. What I meant to ask was, how can Sony possibly afford to but a Blu-Ray player inside a console so early in the format's life?

the rights to the DVD market is worth billions !!!, so just think how much the next gen one is worth, if sony win it they could easy get back what ever they lose on the ps3
 
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I guess for Sony the PS3 is one of the keys to the success of Blu Ray so the loss made is divided between the console accessories/game sales AND blu ray media sales.
 
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XPE said:
the rights to the DVD market is worth billions !!!, so just think how much the next gen one is worth, if sony win it they could easy get back what ever they lose on the ps3

Yes that's true, but as i've said, unless Sony is putting a hurrendously cheap and nasty player in there, then they'll lose $400+ per console?? :confused:
 
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well i might be mistaken but arn't all prices for the machines being released, both recorders aswell as readers?? so it would stand to readon a BD-ROM drive would be substantially cheaper. Remember when the PS2 came out, it came out at 300 quid, and at the time DVD drives, cheapest was 300 quid, so its not that unreasonable
 

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Raider said:
Yes that's true, but as i've said, unless Sony is putting a hurrendously cheap and nasty player in there, then they'll lose $400+ per console?? :confused:


Sony will be putting a hurrendously cheap and nasty player in the ps3, what made you think they where doing any thing different :confused:
 
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yeap, MS put a horrendously cheap and nasty dvd player in the xbox 360 too. It stands to reason, thats why these things are so cheap.
the PS2 dvd player is a cheap nasty thing, and so is the original xbox's, i mean the xbox went through 3 dvd drive manufacturers in the first 3 years cos they where nasty. I dont know how many sony went though, but i dare say they just threw in there cheapy bits left over from other machines
 
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Sony are also having some issues with copy protection on Blu-Ray as they want to try some new stuff which technically isnt legal yet, and there awaiting for that to be cleared up first.

If Blu-Rays are really costing that much i cant see the PS3 having one built in without costing a bucket, especially with HD-DVD costing so little in comparision. I really see this going the way of Betamax / VHS again, even tho Betamax was better.

Personally i wont be buying any HD DVD's until i have the rest of the equipment to match, and then i would choose anything over sony.
 
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Alpha178 said:
Sony are also having some issues with copy protection on Blu-Ray as they want to try some new stuff which technically isnt legal yet, and there awaiting for that to be cleared up first.

If Blu-Rays are really costing that much i cant see the PS3 having one built in without costing a bucket, especially with HD-DVD costing so little in comparision. I really see this going the way of Betamax / VHS again, even tho Betamax was better.

Personally i wont be buying any HD DVD's until i have the rest of the equipment to match, and then i would choose anything over sony.

The HD-DVD players do seem cheaper, with Toshiba apparently producing one at launch (by March in the USA) for $499.

If HD-DVD gets a 3 month head-start, plus cheaper equipment, then Sony could be in trouble, especially if the PS3 Blu-ray player stinks :(
 
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I can't see Blu-ray or HD DVD taking off in the same way as DVD's did for a while at the best, as a lot of people have only just updated their collections to DVD (from VHS), and whilst the improvement with the HD format will be good on newish material, it won't make a huge difference for a lot of older stuff.

As for Sony putting blu-ray into the PS3, I can't see them managing it particulary cheaply for the near future, and suspect MS made a very smart move in sticking with DVD for now.
You don't need huge amounts of storage for games, unless you plan on using massive numbers of prerendered scenes and FMV (such as FF7 did), and whilst bunging a drive with huge capacity may be an idea for futureproofing, you are taking a fairly big gamble if it means the difference between a $100-200 loss and a $300+ loss per unit in the short to mid term (or raising the price of the unit a lot).

I'm just wondering how many problems the PS3 will have with it's drive if Sony do go for the cheapest possible blu-ray drive unit (the DVD drives in the PS2 and X-box aren't anything to write home about in general, the same was true with the CD drive in the PS1).
 
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supposidly it was on a forum the whole developer team for the ps3 had been fired (think it was a lie) due to over heating of the ps3


blue ray wont be a major isssue since there is a lot of companies in the band waggon for it ....so it will all come back

the cell processor is the big money spender since it cost a load to develop (not known) and sony arnt sure if they are going to market it as a server cpu although i certainly would like em to and to pay of the costs they robably are ... (also i think it was custom pc i read but summit with asus and a mobo for it =S ill find it later )

but as every new product like the psp and xbox360 song and microsoft will loose out on money to get them of cheap to sell supposidly sony aint ment o make a profit on the psps for 3 years so theres jst 2 left now .... and microsoft certainly have lost abit in making the 360's
 
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I think going with blu-ray in the ps3 is a bit risky. I could understand if blu-ray players had been available for a year or so, but as it stands it sounds like the ps3 could be one of the first easily available devices on the market with blu-ray, and given blu-ray vs HD-DVD isn't anywhere near settled it could be interesting. My guess is that they've been forced into it by the fact blu-ray is their technology and they really need to push it in the face of microsofts support for HD-DVD.

Personally if i'd been sony I'd have released ps3 in two flavours, one with dvd, and then a a version with blu-ray and the hardrive included, in the ilk of xbox core and premium. Either that or design it with a removable drive, so people could upgrade to blu-ray in the future, as most people I know don't have a clue about HDTV let alone a replacement for DVD being on the way, so just won't make use of a blu-ray drive.
 
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the 360 has announced that a hd drive will be avalable later this year (no date given or price its on games radar)

the blue ray hd dvd fas of is the betamax vs vhs except i have a funny feeling blueray might win its 50/50 atm with microsoft giing support to both products as far as we know but i rekon theyll just go for more support and endorsement wih hd dvd since its on the 360 ....the removabe drive acordin to games radar .... (back to the 360 here lol) the rekon itll just be for video ..... as for your point with dvd ... halo 3 for the xbox is ment to be on 4 discs i mean your alone in bed 8 hours solid playing .. . yes just finishd that mishion please insert disc 4 DAM ****** ******* and wake every one up in the neighbourhood ... i think we must update to blue ray or hd however id say bac blue ray ... ikle bit more expensive however you see the benifits up to 200gb on 8 layers !!!!!
 
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Energize said:
Rember that pioneer are releasing a bd-rw at the end of this month so when the ps3 comes out, drives will have been out for a couple of months.
I think what they meant is that they have a near-final bd-rw player completed. Pioneer have just said that their first player will not appear till June, and I'm highly doubtful that we'll see any before that.

In terms of the age-old argument of Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, it's definately 50/50 atm. Blu-ray may sound theortically better with the extra capacity etc., but HD-DVD is much easier to implement from a cost and player perspective, and the HD-DVD camp was first to demonstrate their dual-layer system, where as the Blu-Ray people struggled to do the same.

If it were up to me, i'd go with Blu-Ray, simply because of the extra capacity that's possible, but if it's a nightmare to manufacture players and discs, then what's the point?
 

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JUMPURS said:
well i might be mistaken but arn't all prices for the machines being released, both recorders aswell as readers?? so it would stand to readon a BD-ROM drive would be substantially cheaper. Remember when the PS2 came out, it came out at 300 quid, and at the time DVD drives, cheapest was 300 quid, so its not that unreasonable

u aint mistaken mate - this is the whole point of blu ray! high capacity to record high quality.

have sony mentioned that the ps3 will "write" bluray? i doubt it... why try and build in support for the mass of different recording standards that will no doubt come out - just the same as when dvd was first released - first releases always suffer some challenges - now all players read dvd+ dvd- blah blah


if the ps3 is significantly more exspensive than the xbox 360 which one will u buy?

is £400 too much do u think? what will it offer over the xbox?

MS want the xbox to become integrated into your digital lifestyle - this is why u get support for XP MCE, media player, wireless etc and having access to windows code i am sure will help the xbox developers to seamlessly add features to it.

sony have wht to offer in addition to warrent a significantly higher price?
 
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knowlesy said:
the 360 has announced that a hd drive will be avalable later this year (no date given or price its on games radar)

the blue ray hd dvd fas of is the betamax vs vhs except i have a funny feeling blueray might win its 50/50 atm with microsoft giing support to both products as far as we know but i rekon theyll just go for more support and endorsement wih hd dvd since its on the 360 ....the removabe drive acordin to games radar .... (back to the 360 here lol) the rekon itll just be for video ..... as for your point with dvd ... halo 3 for the xbox is ment to be on 4 discs i mean your alone in bed 8 hours solid playing .. . yes just finishd that mishion please insert disc 4 DAM ****** ******* and wake every one up in the neighbourhood ... i think we must update to blue ray or hd however id say bac blue ray ... ikle bit more expensive however you see the benifits up to 200gb on 8 layers !!!!!


First off, thats really hard to read. Secondly, is changing disc's that hard really? How far away from your console are you? It didn't stop Final Fantasy 7 from being a great game... Personally I don't mind changing discs at all.
 
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