PS3 hardware "slow and broken".

Caporegime
Joined
8 Sep 2005
Posts
27,706
Location
Utopia
Taken from here... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171

PS3 hardware slow and broken

By Charlie Demerjian in Taipei: Monday 05 June 2006, 03:35

AFTER BREAKING THE news to me about PS3 RSX speeds earlier on the flight to Japan, my row-mate said 'if you think that's interesting, wait till you see this. Cell is hurting, badly'.
For those of you that believe in religions with karmic tendencies, scoops like this meant one of two things, the wings of the plane are about to fall off and I am going to die in a fiery ball, or worse yet, the movie selection will be worrisome. Cell memory access appears to be broken, RSX has half the triangle setup rate of the ATI chip in XBox360, and the true horror, Big Momma's House 2 and a Queen Latifa movie.

With the movie selection still making my brain throb from the glances I caught, I furiously took notes on what the source was saying. He started out saying that the RSX can only write about half as much vertex data as it can fetch, not an ideal situation by any stretch, but survivable.

Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart.

Half the triangle setup capability in the PS3, could things get worse? Yes, far far worse, how about another disparity of three orders of magnitude? No, I am not joking, looking at Sony's own figures, Cell appears to be pretty badly broken.



For main memory, it looks like Cell has about 25GBps of main memory bandwidth, and RSX is about 15-20GBps. Achievable bandwidth is between about two thirds of that and nearly 100%, clearly the elves in the caves surrounding Rambus central did something right with XDR. That is the happy news.

For local memory, the measured vs theoretical bandwidth is missing, I wonder why? RSX is at a solid 22.4GBps for both read and write, good job there green team. Then comes the blue team with Cell. Local memory write is about 4GBps, 40% of the next slowest bandwidth there. Then comes the bomb from hell, the Cell local memory read bandwidth is a stunning 16MBps, note that is a capital M to connote Mega vs a capital G to connote Giga. This is a three order of magnitude oopsie, and it is an oopsie, as Sony put it "(no, this isn't a typo...)".

If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes Cell local memory just about useless. That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless. This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems. Basically, if this Sony presentation to PS3 devs shown to us is correct, it looks like PS3 will be hobbled in a serious way.

The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory, but write to main memory with RSX(tm) and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers. This is very very bad. The number of times the presentation goes on to say that it is correct, and the lack of anything like "this will be fixed by production steppings, so take measures X, Y and Z" say to me that it is not a fixable snafu. Remember at E3 when I said that the PS3 demos there were object sparse? Any guesses why?

Someone screwed up so badly it looks like it will relegate the console to second place behind the 360. All the devs I talked to were lukewarm on the 360 architecture but universally negative on the PS3. Revelations like this go a long way to explain why you keep hearing about simmering problems from the Sony devs.

You end up with a console with half the triangle setup rate of the 360, a crippled CPU that is a bitch to program, and tools that are atrocious compared to the 360. To make matters worse, you have an arrogant set of execs telling us that twice the price is worth it for half the power, a year late. If it isn't already too late, Sony had better do something about this recto-cranial inversion or it may very well sink the console. µ

If this holds any truth then my oh my are a lot of people in for big dissappointment this year... :o
 
Richdog said:
Taken from here... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171



If this holds any truth then my oh my are a lot of people in for big dissappointment this year... :o


Yeah dude, this may well be the nail in the coffin. How could they possibly miss something like this??? If this is true, and there are no moves from SONY to fix this, it could very well be a prime motivator in helping people decide to get an XBOX360 (winces).

With half the potential power of a 360, all you are going to end up with is a rather expensive blue ray player with nothing to play in it other than old PS2 and PS1 games and whatever the initial game offering is on release.

*sigh* I expected more...

<= Secretly holding breath to see if SONY get out of this one...
 
I find it hard to believe the memory speed is 16 megabytes a second - I mean a hard disk drive is quicker than that.
 
Assuming this is correct, I would assume that there may only be one generation of games on the PS£. Developers will make the games they are contracted to and jump ship. Why struggle to develop lower quality games? It sounds like the costto make the console is too high. The costs to make the games is too high and the output from the console is too low.

I think that the cost for game development will be passed onto the customers I would not be supprised to see £60+ games.

I was always going wait for the PS£ to come down in price. Now I will be waiting a bit longer to see what games are still being made and the frequency of AAA game releases.
 
I wonder what will influence Joe Public more though- Talk of Giga flops and what not that personally I don't understand at all or a multi million marketing campaign and the Playstation brand?

Personally whilst its an interesting read (what I can pick up from it atleast) I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt for the time being.
 
Well... Cell looks to be totally FUBAR if thats right....

16MB/s Local mem read speed... what the hell year is this 1981....
 
HeX said:
16MB/s Local mem read speed... what the hell year is this 1981....

So doesn't that tell you, quite obviously, that either the figure is wrong, or that the local memory read speed doesn't matter on the PS3 because of how the PS3 works. It's obvious isn't it?
 
its obvious that if your going to buy a launch ps3 at the high prices stated on a unknown format and on unknown tech then your either got more money than sense, mad, or a sony fan
 
Fusion said:
The Inquirer? Truth? Surely not.

Read this article this morning and thought the exact same thing.
Until someone comes out and says it for fact then i wont believe it.
I mean 'a random guy i sat next to on a flight' great source there!
 
dirtydog said:
16 MB a second is very slow even for a hard drive... just use your common sense and realise this is obviously FUD.

That's more than likely true, but what worries me is the number of stories I've heard over the past 6 months saying the PS3 is inferior to the Xbox360 in terms of power. I *want* the PS3 to be as powerful as it's meant to be, I *want* it to challenge the 360 for dominance of the console market, and for that to happen, it needs to be as powerful as the specs suggest otherwise Sony can't justify the whopping price tag. I've heard stories from various sources and devs (including John Carmack) that they won't be bothering with the PS3 as much and will be concentrating on the Xbox360. As a 360 owner that suits me fine, but we need true competition in order to promote a continual strive for excellence from all involved in making the games and hardware.
 
Absolutely :) I will be glad when it's released so we can finally see what the truth is - which I am quite sure is that its performance will be virtually identical to the 360's. Then it'll just be down to the skill of the developers and the quality of games which are released.
 
Interesting story.

Is it true? Well, that slide from DevStation looks real. Will it cause a major problem for the PS3? No. It will be up to the developers to code around it. It will certainly not be ideal, but it will be possible.

So what will the overall effect on the consumer be? None. It won't effect them in any major way. It will annoy developers at first, but they will get used to it, and they'll make games as before.

The main thing, don't believe the Sony hype machine!
 
I think the PS2 is actually supposed to be quite hard to develop for anyway isn't it? But developers have still worked wonders with it :)
 
Back
Top Bottom