PS4 @720p v 1080p?

MatTheCat · 10 Jan 2014 at 17:42

Does anyone know how the difference in 720p and 1080p frame rates are with this console?

I have a mate who reckons he needs to upgrade his 720p TV for the perfect PS4 experience. I am telling him that with 1080p, he will get a crisper image but poorer performance in many games, perhaps much poorer.

Leeroy Jenkins · 10 Jan 2014 at 17:51

MatTheCat said:
Does anyone know how the difference in 720p and 1080p frame rates are with this console?

I have a mate who reckons he needs to upgrade his 720p TV for the perfect PS4 experience. I am telling him that with 1080p, he will get a crisper image but poorer performance in many games, perhaps much poorer.

On BF4 i have seen no difference in fps since switching from a 22" 720 to a 42" 1080.

crunchman · 10 Jan 2014 at 17:58

There's no performance difference, "most" games are 1080p and then scaled to whatever res you play at

ps3ud0 · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:03

Oh dear OP you dont appear to know what you are talking about - the PS4 will render at whatever internal resolution the game is setup for and then up/downscale accordingly to the final resolution if its not the same as the internal res...

ps3ud0 :cool:

MatTheCat · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:09

crunchman said:
There's no performance difference, "most" games are 1080p and then scaled to whatever res you play at

So it is a question of whether games devs decide to stick with 1080p or downgrade to 720p overtime, which they may be forced into doing in order to maintain good performance levels as graphics eyes candy demands progresses.

ps3ud0 said:
Oh dear OP you dont appear to know what you are talking about - the PS4 will render at whatever internal resolution the game is setup for and then up/downscale accordingly to the final resolution if its not the same as the internal res...

ps3ud0

Oh you hero ps3ud0. You have read some information that I haven't. How stupid of me not to know that already and have the nerve to come asking for it on a tech forum.

ps3ud0 · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:12

Nope not really, as driver/system optimisations will happen along the way (or example lower OS overheads or more efficient graphics techniques). Far more likely to find resolutions and eye candy improve hand-in-hand over the consoles lifetime. Depends what the developer is trying to achieve and where he wants to compromise...

EDIT: Just saw your edit and yeah considering your advice, Id label it stupid, especially as its mis-information - console like a lot of tv/video equipment use scalers, its not really new...

ps3ud0 :cool:

mmj_uk · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:15

I'd imagine the PS4 will be CPU limited in most cases so the higher resolution will be free, the 8 core AMD CPU is **** by modern standards really.

crunchman · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:16

MatTheCat said:
So it is a question of whether games devs decide to stick with 1080p or downgrade to 720p overtime, which they may be forced into doing in order to maintain good performance levels as graphics eyes candy demands progresses.

If the history with PS3 and 360 is anything to go by, yes we might see lazier devs lower the res to 900 or something like that just to put the latest lighting/shader effects .etc

But the better devs will be putting out 1080p still, either way the res on a console will not affect the performance you get

MatTheCat · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:17

mmj_uk said:
I'd imagine the PS4 will be CPU limited in most cases so the higher resolution will be free, the 8 core AMD CPU is **** by modern standards really.

I know the GPU is a bit crappy.

Never really having been a console gamer since PS2 days, I was basing my understanding on which TV to go for on PC experience. If someone had a AMD HD 7850, I certainly wouldn't recommend that they upgrade from a 720p to a 1080p monitor.

I also remember some games on XBox running better if the resolution was lowered.

crunchman · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:19

MatTheCat said:
I also remember some games on XBox running better if the resolution was lowered.

Not true, it's still a scaler that doesn't take a performance hit. One thing consoles do better than pc!

mmj_uk · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:20

The GPU in PS4 is actually quite decent by console standards, definitely aimed at 1080P... it's probably best piece of hardware in either of the next gen consoles... it's the CPU in both of them that is a big let down for me (and Xbox One's GPU).

MatTheCat · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:24

Good to know chaps.

I had better re-advise my mate.

Alexrose1uk · 10 Jan 2014 at 18:46

MatTheCat said:
I know the GPU is a bit crappy.
If someone had a AMD HD 7850, I certainly wouldn't recommend that they upgrade from a 720p to a 1080p monitor.

There's actually very little wrong with the 7850, I've got 2 in PCs near me (my fiancee and my younger brothers) and the 2GB model at least will handle most games at good settings at 1080p, even 1200p.

Yes if you want extreme quality/AA you need faster, but seriously, the 7850 is actually a very good card, especially when you understand the architecture of a console will allow them to get MUCH more out of the card than most devs will ever get on the PC, I mean Mantle, which is toting big 45% increases or so...consoles already run something even more efficient and 'to the metal' than this, albeit in the same vein.

Think of what they were doing with the 360/PS3 by the end of the console's lives, and those machines were effectively using modified X1800 and 7800 GPUs...

The 7850 is substantially, and I do mean substantially, more powerful, I think a lot will be done with it over the PS4's lifespan.

mmj_uk · 10 Jan 2014 at 19:09

The main thing is that PS4 GPU has 32 ROPS and that is what AMD themselves deem to be a 1080P GPU (in the PC space).

If a game is CPU limited it usually means that you can increase graphics/resolution without performance changing, the GPU simply performs the extra work with its otherwise idle hardware.

If a game is GPU limited then increasing graphics/resolution will hurt performance because the GPU has nothing left to give.

Johnnytoxic · 10 Jan 2014 at 19:13

MatTheCat said:
but poorer performance in many games, perhaps much poorer.

This is completely wrong, the outputted resolution at the end is from a scaler. The game is rendered at a specific resolution what the developer wants and is set in stone. Whether its 900p or 1080p.

Performance does not change to whatever is output on the TV.

Minstadave · 10 Jan 2014 at 19:16

mmj_uk said:
I'd imagine the PS4 will be CPU limited in most cases so the higher resolution will be free, the 8 core AMD CPU is **** by modern standards really.

I'm surprised anyone would think an 8 core CPU is weak for a console. Even if it's not particularly powerful it's still quite an achievement for the price.

I'd be amazed if CPU power would be the limiting factor in a scenario that puts so much emphasis on graphical improvements generation to generation.

wunkley · 10 Jan 2014 at 19:22

Johnnytoxic said:
This is completely wrong, the outputted resolution at the end is from a scaler. The game is rendered at a specific resolution what the developer wants and is set in stone. Whether its 900p or 1080p.

Performance does not change to whatever is output on the TV.

On the money. Can someone less lazy than myself please link to some authoritative info, as the apparent confusion in this thread is pretty bad.

TheVoice · 11 Jan 2014 at 07:32

Johnnytoxic said:
This is completely wrong, the outputted resolution at the end is from a scaler. The game is rendered at a specific resolution what the developer wants and is set in stone. Whether its 900p or 1080p.

Performance does not change to whatever is output on the TV.

That's not always the case actually; GT5 for example shows different framerates for 720p vs 1080p:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis?page=3

But yes, overall moving from a 720p TV to a 1080p one on a next-gen console isn't going to make any difference because the games will be rendered at one set resolution in the first place.