Psycho sister and my parents estate

[Slam62]

Hi all, my elderly parents unfortunately both passed away last June. My sister and I were the only beneficiaries from the estate which was to be divided equally, we were both executors of the estate.
Prior to my mums death, my sister had power of attorney and access to all their finances. On establishing the contentsnof the wills i repeatedly asked my sister for full access to the accounts which she just would not provide. She complained about the complexity of probate etc however every time I offered to do it she refused and came up with some weasel words.
My parents also had a flat which she was desperate to sell.

So fast forward to the exchange of contracts on the flat and my sister is being very evasive about the whereabouts of the cash from the estate, she admits she placed it in her own personal bank account, although the evidence for the location of the money is very sketchy.

Anyway in order to make sure I get what is mine I use the flat sale as leverage, at this point I don't care if the sale falls through. The conveyancer can see that I am equal joint owner and will not sell with out my express permission.

So there is a long chain involved, it has been dragging on but my sister still won't give me what is mine. So I write to the estate agent and the conveyancer stating that I will not sell the flat unless my sister settles the rest of the estate.

Then radio silence from my sister for a day, the next day, an email saying that if she transfers the money into my account will I allow the sale of the flat. Well duh, that's what I wanted for the last 6 months.

So during the day several payments land in my account and all the money is paid. I give permission to exchange contracts on the flat, a week later the sale completes, more money comes flying into my account, happy days.

So if you got this far, well done, there was a lot of rather nasty exchanges but I won't go into those.

What do we reckon my sister was up to? She has a good degree her recently retired husband had what he thinks is a prestigious job, they have a house they bought 20 odd years ago that is now worth about a million.

However she has been doing a part time admin role in the NHS for several years now, she has always been a bit of a 'Mrs Bucket' type. I know that his firm has been through a few take overs and his pension was screwed to a certain extent.

Anyway if you want to proffer an opinion please do, needless to say I don't really feel like asking her straight as relations have somewhat deteriorated.

 

[Slam62]

Yeah its all true and there's a lot more that I can hardy believe myself.
For example before my dad's death he regularly told me to keep an eye on my sister and money as she wasn't very good with it.
The last conversation of sorts i had with him was when he called me but was not coherent, I got the message that he wanted me to talk to my sister about money.

My mother was in the same care home as she had had a massive stroke a couple of years earlier and I think her death 2 weeks after my dad's really caught my sister out. Prior to this as she had POA she was going to sell the flat to fund the care home fees, even though I subsequently found there was or should have been plenty of cash available.

Finally in the phone call to me telling me my mother had died she wanted me to agree to her having a bigger share of the estate as she had one more child than me. She even talked about putting the money in trust funds.
She was then very evasive about the wills which it turned out she had a copy of all along, so yeah trolling, cool story bro.

I am trying to get closure on all this and some of your answers have been very helpful so thanks for that, I feel as though sometimes I get the wrong end of the stick so I am happy to read other people's views.

I do need to move on but I just cannot understand why my sister would be so crazy. I don't feel in a position to build bridges at the moment though.

Thanks all for your inputs, even the one calling me a troll, it just shows how crazy the situation was.

 

[Slam62]

If you really live in Monaco, she probably thought you didn’t need it

Monaco is not the place it once was.

 

[Slam62]

What about the money in you late parents accounts? Has she spent/stolen it?

It was over 100k and in the end she suddenly capitulated and split it 50-50 as per the wills.

 

[Slam62]

Probate is complex and needs a ******** of work for the record. Any assets your parents would have, ie shares, would also have to be sold. I don't think she can send you the money until she's done all the paperwork and taxes are paid.

My Mum got quite annoyed at her siblings wife wanting to double check everything when she was doing so much work. She offered her siblings to do the work instead if they wanted to double check everything 'for their records'.

So perhaps she wasn't been dishonest but was stressed with a complex process.

Yeah totally agree, but the inheritance tax had been dealt with and probate had been granted 4 months earlier.
She actual saved a load of tax because I pointed out that as they died close together their tax allowances could be combined.
The whole thing was mental, it was as straightforward as it could be.

Tbh I won't go into detail, but her and her husband were continually playing with words and twisting the meaning of things to avoid paying up. I literally had to convince them that I really wouldn't sell the flat if the didn't pay up, all a day before exchange of contracts.
I am convinced that if I had let the flat sale go through she would have kept most if not all of the money and said take me to court for it which would have taken ages and cost a fortune. I did try to get the police involved but they said it was a civil matter.
Several times a said to her I would do the probate, but she wouldn't let me near any of it.

The question in my mind is pure greed or financial problems.

On her husbands side of the family, his mother is in a home and has been for several years, his father died a few years ago when the mother was living at home, they had a very expensive property which she sold and bought a smaller place. She then bought her daughter a house as she had struggled to settle down, there is another brother who at one time moved the mother into an expensive care home which she liked however my sister got upset about this and moved her to a cheaper one, this all happened a few years ago and we didn't pay much attention at the time. We now wonder what was really going on.

 

[Slam62]

Beat her up to be fair

What about the letter box approach?

 

[Slam62]

What you both should have done was set up a trustees account at a high street bank so that all monies from the estate and all disbursements to utilities etc. go through it. This way there is a traceable path to all payments. Then the flat sale could have gone through this account as well.

Job done

Yeah I expected her to have done that and was shocked to find she hadn't it took a very forceful conversation to find out where the money was and even now I'm not convinced we were told the truth.

 

[Slam62]

This is exactly what my sister did early last year when my Mum died in December 2019.
She has accounted for ever penny and even when she sold tat out of the Bungalow it all went into the account.
My only worry was that my Mum had left me half because I didn't deserve it and I went through a depressive few months because I wouldn't be able to accept it.
My Mum left me 33% which is still too much but I could come out of depression.
She asked the other day if I'd noticed there is still money in the account but I've never looked and she said she would split it as soon as our Mums finances were finally closed, even after all this time there is still money things going on like a refund from British Gas etc.
My sister is great.

The thing is though that what the wills say is sacracant, it must be followed and they wrote the wills in 2014 I think, they were both of sound mind and they were left with a solicitor. So even if my sister might think she was due more because she cared for them, they consciously chose to do what they did. Presumably there were good reasons for this and I respect their wishes more strongly than any misguided view of fairness no matter how well meaning. I certainly wouldn't get depressed over it, the real way to deal with it is to dispute the will if you think she was not of sound mind and manipulated. Otherwise you owe her the respect and legal obligation of carrying out her wishes.
I always respected the process and the wills my parents were both intelligent and sensible people and almost tried too hard to be fair between me and my sister. I have no way of knowing what their thoughts were but I'm sure they had their reasons.

 

[Slam62]

Did you actually get all the paperwork etc..? Or have you just seen to amount in the account currently and received some cash payments?

It's more the lack of transparency that seems dubious, you really should have spoken with the solicitor if you were the executor and weren't even allowed access to the accounts, bills, etc.. like surely you have a legal obligation there and "but but probate is complicated" response from your sister isn't really any reason to not show you the documents given you both have a legal responsibility there as executors.

Really you should have got this sorted via the solicitor much sooner than end up in a silly position where you start messing around with and possibly have contributed to the collapse of a house sale.



Ah so why let that happen then? You used some leverage to try to get things sorted but then accepted some money and have still been left in the dark? WTF? You're literally an executor here - you should have access to all the relevant accounts, bills etc..

Might be worth getting in contact with the bank(s) and getting copies of statements etc.. or just go back to your sister and ask to see all the accounts.

I agree, but tbh it all became too much in the end, I still might look into it, but its only money and good luck to her.
I was very concerned about what she did while she had POA and did contact the office of public governance, I think that's what it is called, I may push that further, it upset me too much to think of what she may have been up to though.

She did present accounts and letters of account closures that seemed to add up. But was odd where the money ended up, I struggle to think they faked everything but you never know do you.

 

[Slam62]

Sounds like the sister has probably done you out of a fair bit of money and the complete lack of transparency is somewhat of a red flag. Probate can cause all sorts of issues which is why the first thing you must do is remain transparent and document everything.

My Uncle in Ireland has been robbed blind by family members out there and I'm sure that when he dies the vultures will be fighting over the scraps. He had hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of properties over there, saving and pensions and now he basically has nothing because the people in charge of his finances took him to the cleaners. The did it all "legally" and transferred his assets and spent his money but because no one was there to stop it there is no point going to court. Hes in his 90s now in bad health and there is no way to prove anything.

Money truly is the root of all evil.

Yeah, the only reassurance I tell myself is that if she has taken more money she lied in the submission to hmrc and the probate service which I really don't think she would risk.

 

[Slam62]

From 1986 when my Dad left, my sister was at my Mums beck & call up until our Mum died 18 months ago and if I'd walked away with nothing it was what I deserved.

That's fair, but if you go against the will it is a separate arrangement. I.e. you can't go against the will but you can give a gift once the estate is settled.

 

[Slam62]

How much did she participate in the care of your late mother? Make sure you value that before you go too gung-ho on claiming what is rightly yours.

Two things here, yes she did look after my mum and dad a lot, but never a full time carer, she took them to hospital when needed and after my mum had the stroke arranged for her to go into a home.

I would have been more disposed towards sympathy had she not behaved so reprehensible from the outset. In fact her attitude made me question her motives.

Also, my parents moved to live near her when her children were very young, this gave my parents pleasure but also gave her the huge benefit of having free child care or assistance in anything else available at a moments notice for 20 years. She also had her parents in law living near by and they also helped out.
Personally I think she had those benefits and thus she had an obligation to care for them when they needed it, but tbh she still did the minimum she could. She was always a lot more interested in socialising and appearances than genuinely caring for people.
She also seemed to cut me out of key family events that I won't go into and seemed to make things as difficult as possible whenever she could.
I agree with the comments that she may have hidden some funds but life is too short and I'll leave that to her and her conscience.
A solicitor was never involved, apart from for conveyancing.

Basically the comments in here have largely confirmed my thinking which is good in a way. I consider myself to have been fortunate in life in the end (not lottery winning fortunate) so I don't want to create more aggro.

 

[Slam62]

so did you ever see the full accounts? I get the feeling your parents had a lot more money than you think and your sisters ripping you off

or your sister was stealing money from your parents the whole time and doesn't want you to find out

I'ma speculate she took money before they even passed away

op needs to see the full finances

I suspect something like this, but tbh she is my sister and I suppose I just cannot accept that she would do that, or rather I don't want to.

In the end I need to move on, I am saddened by the thought of what she may have been up to, but if she really is that type of person I feel sorry for her and anyone who is taken in by her. Pursuing it now isn't going to change what happened.

Tbh I find these type of people pathetic, big financial wannabes who end up with more and more financial problems spiralling out of control.

Her house in theory is worth a million quid so she ought to be able to flog it and still have loads of cash, but she is genuinely so financially inumerate that she may have built up equivalent debts. She trained as a lawyer and worked at a city law firm for a while part time, I think they get trained to talk their way out of things, doesn't really work with reality though. Adding up is purely for charging clients.

I have an ex brother in law who apparently was going to be a millionaire but ended up with an iva and a divorce. We didn't find out any thing about it until after it had all happened. He was a qualified financial advisor. Now works as a senior branch manager for wbac lol.
They had the perfect new detached family home and all the trimmings, now they live in separate rented places, must have been great fun under lock down. They have a son who must have been badly affected by it all.

 

[Slam62]

Hi everyone, a quick update, things came to a head when my sister and her husband could not show me or give me access to a probate account containing the financial assets of the estate.
I suggested that to simplify things she could instruct the conveyancer of the flat to pay my remaining share of the estate out of her share of the flat sale (I know). But it was a way forward. She refused to do this so I refused to allow the sale of the flat until my share of the rest of the estate had been paid.

This put her and her husband into a blind panic and the day before the exchange of contracts I received a message asking me that if the money was paid into my account that day would I allow the sale. Well duh I thought. So low an behold during the day the money was paid in instalments . I allowed the sale and it all went through.

Since then I have been occasionally pondering what she was up to.
Anyway I have come to the conclusion that she has significant financial problems, to the extent that the money from the sale of the flat was already legally promised to another party and she didn't actually have access to the cash from the estate as that was also promised to another party. On the day before the flat sale she was rushing around getting a bridging loan or something to pay to me.

So somehow she has ended up in some sort of IVA arrangement with a creditor and the experience has pushed her of the rails.

Now a few things then confuse me , she had power of attorney so presumably has been misusing the funds. Also she has a house worth about 1.5 million so would just have to sell and move on. She would be reluctant to sell and has always been very status orientated. Her and her husband always liked to give the impression they are well off.

Anyhow she may or may not have conned me out of some money but I got as much as I need and she doesn't seem in a happy place. Both are in their 60s and don't seem to have much in the way of pensions, hubby has now retired after a serious cycling accident and a long time of work, he was a director in a civil engineering company though.

Just wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else had any thoughts.

 

[Slam62]

If you’ve got an amount that you’re happy with then cut and run. Don’t drag the process out any longer. It sounds like a mess and your sanity/happiness is worth more than a few quid wrung out of your sister.

Hi , yes this is my thought, I just wanted a bit of a sanity check on my theory from random people.

Obviously for many decades she has presented this image as being superior and a bit of a socialite so it's a bit of reversal and very unexpected.

In order to move on I have needed to try and come up with a plausible theory to explain her behaviour and the things my dad said to me and I think this is the closest I'm going to get. Obviously she is never going to come clean and hasn't told any friends or other family.
If I were to approach any of them I'm sure I would be further cast as the bad guy.

So that's all folks thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Slam62]

What a sad story... Lose family over money?

It's even worse if you consider what she may have been doing while my poor father was struggling with his age and the fact my mum had had the really bad stroke and after 60 years of marriage, they had good lives but its still very difficult at the end. It is difficult for me to accept tbh.

I don't want the time I have left consumed with disputes, God knows what she has got herself ìnto, or if she's just being selfish then she deserves herself.

I have thought about a few courses of action, but it won't change what has happened. I think I am still struggling with it all and I haven't ruled out some course of action.

With the shock of the events and covid etc and I thought I knew my sister, her reaction came has a huge shock and I was completely confused.

I now need clarity so I can move on, the question for myself is at what level of understanding I can live with, I'm not sure I'm there yet.

 

[Slam62]

Because money is power. Only worse, because money is more essential.

Yeah first of all I just put down to her wanting to control everything as she always has done, I went along with it to keep my parents happy but it seems in the last couple of years things weren't as they appeared.

 

[Slam62]

I've just read the OP, nothing else.

But, I expect she made more than you money wise. And you won't know about it.

Of course she did and she's had a lot more over the years. But sometimes you have to just to cut your losses.

Mum and dad were very careful with money, something I appear to have inherited, my sister on the other hand.

Believe me I tried extremely hard to get access, I did contact the police a couple of times but they just said it was a civil matter. Short of a long drawn out civil action there's not a lot you can do. At least I had the sale of the flat as leverage otherwise I don't think I'd have seen much cash. Also my mum died a few days after my dad so she still had POA, she had been desperate to sell the flat so presumably would have just done that on the pretext of needing the money for the care home. If I was guilty of anything it was assuming my own sister would behave correctly and honestly.

Anyway, it is what it is, for my limited needs I have enough money and a decent pension.

This thread has at least served as an outlet and to sanity check my thoughts. I don't want to do her a disservice but it seems financial desperation may have got the better of her either that or plane crazy amounts of greed.

 

[Slam62]

Having watched some of my wife's family outright steal money from elderly family members.... Get the lawyers involved to get this all figures out. Get an audit of finances done so everything comes to light.

(Looking after the dad with dementia and buying extravagant items with his money like motor bikes, frozen steaks and much much more). They acted like they were entitled to all his money even though 3 other siblings, and spent all of it then fled to Florida to avoid prosecution. Sorry to say but don't trust what your sister says, get lawyer to do it.

Wow what is it with people