Pulling a wall down....

R.O.S.S.I

R.O.S.S.I

R.O.S.S.I

Soldato
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Seen a 3 bed semi that we like the look of and went for a viewing the other day. The house is a good size and in a good area, with a decent size lounge and dining room but it has a god awful 5ft 5 wide kitchen next to the dining room which is neither use nor ornament really.

Is it costly to get an RSJ fitted so that the wall can come down that separates the dining room and kitchen. Or more to the point, is the actual steel cost of the RSJ a lot?

I'm quite au fais with the process of how RSJ's are fitted and think myself, along with help from a couple of family members could do most of the work ourselves.

Am I right in thinking I'd need a structural engineer to do some calculations for the steel required and to get building regs in to check it during the process?
 
the beams themselves aren't too expensive (obviously depends on the size but domestic construction shouldn't be too bad!) - you would need an engineer to tell you the sizes and get it signed off by building regs. Are you sure it's definitely load bearing? and what kind of width is the opening
 
Am I right in thinking it isn't overly expensive getting an SE to do the calculations and then getting building regs sign off? Ive had a look at steels online and pretty sure it wouldnt cost more than £100 for it.

I'm not entirely sure it is a load bearing wall to be honest, i'm just assuming it is as there is another wall in roughly the same place upstairs.

The opening we'd be looking to make once the wall is down would be about 9ft absolute max. The kitchen is 5ft7 wide and from memory im sure it doesnt even have full width worktops fitted so is very very narrow. Pulling the wall down will give us a very nice kitchen dining space.

Another house at the bottom of the street which is exactly the same size and layout as the one i'm looking at sold for just under £20k more than this house in Feb of this year and that had the kitchen knocked through like the way i'm thinking. This house is actually bigger as it has a bit of an extension across the back too so i'm thinking the value could be increased on it quite easily as it is in a good area and has a decent sized garden too.
 
I had to put an RSJ in my place after the last owner opened the dining room/kitchen without one. Cue the floors upstairs sinking a couple inches and bouncing like a trampoline.

Anyways.. It was close to a 2.7m gap I think and the steel was about £90 or so. Had an Structural Engineer come out and do the calcs and he charged about £250 for his time and the drawings/calcs etc. Hiring half a dozen acrowprops and bought some wooden boards for bracing which totalled no more than £40 or so.

Had my uncle help me with fitting but tbh it's fairly straight forward if you're ok with DIY.
 
£250 is about right for a structural engineer to look at, I very much doubt you'll get anyone to do it for £100 whilst putting their professional reputation and PI on the line.
 
Think you've misread what I wrote. I said I've had a look at steels online and it shouldn't be much more than £100. I'm aware that an SE is likely to cost more than this!

Yeh I'm fairly confident me and my brother would be able to do it as a DIY job. Just wanted to get a rough idea of house much it was going to cost to get a SE, Steel and BR sign off :)
 
My charge out rate is £75-85ph for interest. A beam design and sketch would be 2-3 hours. Plus attendances if necessary.
Steel would be £1000-1500 per tonne for cut steel without any fabrication cost, stiffeners etc. Probably a 203mm deep UB would suffice for a 2.5m opening under normal loading. Padstones from concrete pavings would provide reaction points built into the brickwork below.
 
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For reference (not quite the same job as an internal wall) i shopped around a lot for the engineer and builder to get a 3m opening in an external gable end wall opened up (so 2*RSJ for inner and outer leaves of the wall).

We paid £250 for the engineer calcs for both beams (although i dont think it would be much less work for just one)

We then paid £1500 (inc vat & materials etc) for the walls to be propped, and then the actual beams to be installed and the wall below removed.
 
I was looking to go this route with my house a few months ago but after pulling the ceilings down it was clear to see the wall was not supporting (despite having a wall above on the 1st floor) I called building regs anyway just to be sure and he said if I'm certain it's not load bearing then I don't need them :)
 
NoNameNoNumber said:
I was looking to go this route with my house a few months ago but after pulling the ceilings down it was clear to see the wall was not supporting (despite having a wall above on the 1st floor) I called building regs anyway just to be sure and he said if I'm certain it's not load bearing then I don't need them :)
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That would be the best case scenario if so! Going to have a proper look when I go back to view it again on Friday, I don't suppose there is an easy way to tell without lifting carpets and floor boards is there?
 
Well it was only after pulling the ceilings down either side of said wall that I could see it wasn't touching the joist above (not in line either) The wall above was a caferata gypsum type block nailed together... kind of odd... Still a lot of weight though! It's now been replaced with a stud wall :)
 
You could probably tell if the wall above was stud or brick/block work by giving it a bit of a knock if it sounds hollow its probably stud - not very conclusive but it'll give you an idea. The joists on semis usually run front to back and sit on central wall (front wall to central wall then another joist from central wall to rear wall) the central wall being the load bearing wall, but that's not always the case either, best off consulting a professional
 
Ah yes fair point, I hadn't thought about that. If it's hollow sounding theres a fair chance it's a stud partition and is not load bearing.

I'll be consulting a professional either way but from this floorplan what would your guesses be?

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Lounge/dining room run front to back as joists don't sit on a party wall, the hall and kitchen's a bit more tricky they could run either way. In a modern house they 'd probably run left to right with the landing joists going in the same direction as lounge. The only way to tell for sure is looking at the floorboards but I'm guessing it's carpeted everywhere :/
 
Yeh no real way of telling I guess without looking under carpets! Not to worry, to be honest its not a deal breaker as it would only cost about £500 tops i'd imagine to do the work, just wanted to know if there was any way of finding out prior!

Turns out an old friend is a civil engineer but has lots of friends who work as structural engineers so said he'd easily be able to get one of them to help me out with getting the right steel ordered etc!
 
That's all okay if they are willing to give you a written design from their company.

It sounds OTT for a small beam but if something does go wrong you'll be glad you paid for a proper calculation then you can let your insurance company and the Professional Indemnity Insurance company fight it out, it gets more difficult if you've had 'pub' advice from a mate.
 
Usually beam stiffness is the limiting criteria. Steel beams in domestic house extensions are not usually stressed near to their limit. Minimising dead and live load deflection is more important.
 
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