Q701/K701 Gaming setup

[Straz]

Thinking of getting a pair of either the K701 or Q701. Not sure on what amp to go for atm. Using 90% for games so going down the surround route.

My choices so far are:

Astro Mixamp for the DAC, with another suitable Amp to give a bit more juice.

Dedicated sound card with surround function, all in one solution but quality might suffer.

I'm not after something amazing as my budget for amp/dac is £200.

Ideally I would like the amp to be under £100. Been looking at the STX II as an all in one solution. Heard mixed reviews on it when driving the Q701.

Also looked at the Pheobus as the price is very appealing.

Anyone have any experience with these from a purely gaming standpoint?

 

[TwsT]

don't have q701 so can't say but if the stx II isn't very good with the q701 i find it hard to believe the pheobus on its own would be upto scratch,


mix amp if you already own it plus a headphone amp would be your best bet imo.

If you don't own it then a pheobus + a decent headphone amp OR a D2X + headphone amp.

 

[Straz]

Yeah will probably pick up at O2 amp to power it. So the pheobus has a better quality DAC than the Mixamp? Can't find the DAC the Mixamp uses listed.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

You should only really use a mixamp with a console. Unless that is what you do but also want to use it with a PC to skimp paying for a seperate DAC/AMP.

If you don't own a console forget the mixamp and get yourself a quality DAC/AMP

 

[TwsT]

with sonny on this.

Personally i don't think you need the virtual surround but if you have to have it so beit.

 

[Timber]

You have been given good advice already but I wanted to add some experiences given I own the MixAmp, seperate DAC/Amp (entry level range) and have owned the Phoebus. I did have an issue with the Phoebus (interference on voice communication) that caused me to sell it on: old thread here

I currently use Sennheiser HD598 (mostly) with a Creative SB ZxR for PC gaming and I can't fault it. The Phoebus was a great card for gaming too and really liked the Dolby software that came with it but the interference issue meant I had to get rid.

I use the Astro MixAmp for gaming with my consoles and have a Fiio e7/e9 combination for music. I've tried the Fiio with games and it just doesn't sound as good as the ZxR. I presume this is due to the virtualisation and additional effects the creative card adds on. Therefore I'd be inclined to recommend one of the better Soundcards for PC gaming. I have never tried to use the MixAmp on the PC if I'm honest but with the Phoebus and ZxR I never felt the need to.

I haven't had or owned any AKG's yet so I can't add what combination works well with these that others can.

EDIT: Just to add that I've never used an amp on the ZxR either but again that's probably due to the headphones I own.

 

[rids57]

I use a pair of K702 and an STX for movies and gaming and they work together extremely well. I don't know where you got the idea that they don't work well together but it's utter nonsense. The problem with K701, K702 and Q701 (a Quincified K702) is that although they are not high impedance phones at 62ohms, they are very insensitive and need a strong amp to drive them. Well the STX has a very good DAC and the amp is easily able to drive them to deafening levels when set on medium or even high gain.

You might find the K702 a LOT more comfortable than the Q701 or the K701 as they don't have the headband bumps, which many people find become very painful.

You might also be interested in performing the bass port mod, a simple matter of removing sticky pads inside the rear of the cups, which substantially increases the quantity and depth of the bass without messing up the highs or the sound stage.

The ZxR is not a great match for the AKG's as it's output impedance is a ridiculously high 38ohms. The AKG's are not particularly susceptible to low damping factor (amp's output impedance divided by the headphone's input impedance) but with the ZxR it would be below 2, which is insanely low. It's not ideal with the STX either at 6.2 (it should be 8 or over) but it's high enough not to cause any audible problems and the bass sounds good and solid, punchy and precise.

The ZxR with HD598's is a match made in hell. The 598's are extremely sensitive to low damping factor, their impedance rises from 50ohms to almost 300ohms between 20Hz and 400Hz. The ideal figure is 8 or above and this mix has a damping factor of 1.3 with an impedance spike of 500%. What this means is that when trying to play low frequency sounds, the voice coils in the headphones are very poorly controlled by the amplifier, leading to loose, boomy, imprecise bass.

Flat is good, otherwise you need high impedance headphones or low impedance amps.

 

[Straz]

I realise I don't need virtual surround, would just like to have the option. Thanks for the insight into the K702, probably get those. The bumps were slightly concerning.

I had the STX before and was fairly happy with it, seems the STX II 7.1 is the safe bet and gives me everything I need.

 

[Timber]

Detailed post...

I should probably add I wasn't necessarily recommending the HD598's or the ZxR. I remember before being told something very similar regarding my current headphone combination in this OLD post. I heed the point and I definitely want to try some different headphones beyond what I have and the K702 are probably next on my list (along with the HD 650 for music).

But the key point I wanted to make is that irrespective of the headphones I've used the ZxR sounds better for gaming that my separate DAC/Amp. I generally prefer the HD598's for gaming over the X1's and it might be that I tend to play more FPS's and don't have extra bass or have this set low anyway so notice the issue less. But also even with the imbalance the ZxR is the better sounding card against my old Pheobus - I know as I had them side by side and played certain games/scenes next to each other to compare.

 

[rids57]

I agree, the ZxR is a far better card than the Phoebus. Asus made the Phoebus as jack of all trades (master of none) and slapped the ROG name on it. It's basically a gamer card that should be able to drive anything a gamer can throw at it - sadly they sacrificed sound quality to get there.

I use my STX and K702's for gaming and movies but when it comes to music I use my Aune T1 and HD 650's. I will hopefully be adding a Schiit Asgard 2 after the Aune DAC in a few weeks to complete my music listening setup. I'm listening to a high quality FLAC (Sultans of Swing at 24/96) at the moment and the STX is doing a decent job but it doesn't sound as smooth or musical as the T1. I'm very happy with the dual setup as I get the best of both worlds - clean, powerful stereo and multi-channel surround when I need it from the STX and clear, detailed yet smooth stereo from the Aune T1.

 

[Straz]

Well I have ordered a set of K702s.

With the STX II and the STX II 7.1 - Is the 7.1 version literally just a daughter-board add-on for physical 7 channel audio output? So kinda pointless for me?

 

[rids57]

If you're only going to use headphones and 2.1 then there is no need at all for the daughter board.

 

[TwsT]

I seriously can't recommend the stx II enough it just works is all i can say i'm sure the STX and ZXR do too.

Sales have picked up really well on the STX II of late aswell which considering ASUS made no song or dance about it is a good thing.

Zardon did a great review of it on kitguru if anyone is interested,

 

[Straz]

I ordered the STX II in the end to go with the K702s I ordered earlier. I was wanting to go for the ZXR but I can't believe how high that output impedance is. Especially with a set of 64ohm headphones.

I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with the purchase, maybe not so much musically but for games I'm certain it will be a step up from what I had previously.

Cheers guys helpful as always

 

[Ninja Pirate]

I use a pair of K702 and an STX for movies and gaming and they work together extremely well. I don't know where you got the idea that they don't work well together but it's utter nonsense. The problem with K701, K702 and Q701 (a Quincified K702) is that although they are not high impedance phones at 62ohms, they are very insensitive and need a strong amp to drive them. Well the STX has a very good DAC and the amp is easily able to drive them to deafening levels when set on medium or even high gain.

Headphone sensitivity is something I often see disregarded. I don't know how it became the norm but it seems most people tend to equate driver impedance with how difficult a headphone is to drive/power. People always seem to be surprised when I tell them my HD 800's are easier to drive than my K702 despite having a much higher average impedance.

Not to say impedance isn't an important factor (it's good to know when choosing the right amp) but it really doesn't have much to do with how hard a headphone is to drive. On a side note, manufacturers really need to stop slapping phrases like 'will drive 600 ohm headphones' on their products without any figures to back it up. It's like calling a monitor 'high resolution' without listing it's actual resolution, completely meaningless... /end rant

You might find the K702 a LOT more comfortable than the Q701 or the K701 as they don't have the headband bumps, which many people find become very painful.

You might also be interested in performing the bass port mod, a simple matter of removing sticky pads inside the rear of the cups, which substantially increases the quantity and depth of the bass without messing up the highs or the sound stage.

I'll second the comfort improvement on the latest revision of the K702 (older ones still had the bumps as well). Having said that I'm still not a very big fan of the stock K/Q 7xx range from AKG. There is just something uniquely wrong with how they voice the upper mid range that I find very unpleasant and unnatural. It is however fixable through a simple EQ (-3dB at 2kHz).

As for the bass mod, while it certainly does boost the mid bass and actually brings out the non-existent sub bass, I found the end result to sound a bit loose. It's probably not a big deal for most people though, especially if you're coming from the generally bass heavy gaming headsets or cheaper mainstream cans.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I ordered the STX II in the end to go with the K702s I ordered earlier. I was wanting to go for the ZXR but I can't believe how high that output impedance is. Especially with a set of 64ohm headphones.

I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with the purchase, maybe not so much musically but for games I'm certain it will be a step up from what I had previously.

Cheers guys helpful as always

I take it you don't own a console then?

MIXAMPS are generally really for console gamers only tbh, or those looking for an all rounder for both console and PC.

Asus make great sound cards, don't know if the STX II is supported by the unified drivers, but look into them, they are better than the stock ones from what i've been told.

 

[rids57]

The STX II should be a better card for music than the ZxR too, it's had a few little tweaks here and there and you get the lower end MUSES op-amps to play with.

I've never had a problem with the Asus drivers for the STX and have never had a need to use the unified drivers. Need is not the only driving force with me, want is strong too, so obviously I had to try the unified drivers anyway. Didn't hear any differences in sound so I went back to the Asus drivers as they were more recent.

 

[Straz]

Nah I don't own a console, nothing I can think I'd rather play on a console over a PC. Except maybe FIFA.

Getting the STX II + K702 delivered today so will update later.

 

[Big Boss94]

Sorry to interrupt gents, I'm planning on getting a pair of K702 with the Xonar Essence STX II, havn't had a sound card before. I want to know if I'd benefit from the 7.1 daughter card with these headphones?

Also Straz, can I ask where you purchased the K702's from? I can only find them available on the rainforest, but I'm not sure what sort of warranty I'd have if I purchased from there. Any info would be appreciated. Cheers fellas

 

[rids57]

as far as I know, everything you need for headphones is on the main card, the daughter card is just for 7.1 connectivity