Qualifications for IT.

[BoomAM]

Hi.
Whats the general concensus on here regarding IT qualifications?

Ive been told multiple stories about this, some saying MS qualifications are must haves, some saying experiance is better, some saying a mix, some saying only do the MS qualifications for learning (like Exchange), some saying do the CCNA/CCNPs, some saying its only worth going upto MSCA so i can 'open a few doors' so to speak.

What do you all think?

Thanks in advance all. .

 

[BoomAM]

all imo of course

experience coupled with out of hours courses, best of both worlds in terms of exposure and knowledge base

you are then best set to transpose the useful parts of the courses and use them in real day to day environments and earn cash/recognition of the back of it

At the moment ive done 2 years as a techie, and just under 2 years now as a NM. Enough experiance to start looking at doing some quals, or should i stick with the job for now? (I cant really read my MSCE/MCSA books atm as i dont have a lot of time due to workload).

+ What qualificiations should i look at?

Tbh, im finding project management/planning/ect; more stimulating than the day to day technical stuff...

 

[BoomAM]

Depends if you're planning on leaving your current employer any time soon

lol. Not whilst they're paying. .

if you have the experience the qualifications should be relatively easy to get as you understand the technologies and how they work.

I dont find its as easy as that.
Ive flicked through the 70-290 book, and theres nout there i dont either already know or can work out for myself.
But then when i read the 'mock' questions, im thinking WTF is this, as the questions seem all over the place. Deliberately worded to trip you up, and giving situations and probably answers that are completely useless/wrong.

if you need more info send me a mail via trust.

Emailed. .

but if you want to go down the project management route then gaining something like prince would be more beneficial. Its usually a three day intense course but you do learn a lot so i'm told.

Prince?
Never heard of it.



Would anyone here suggest specialising and just doing, for example, just the ISA stuff, or just the Exchange stuff?

 

[BoomAM]

Im considering going down the route of a few MCPs or whatever the new stuff is called, specifically in Exchange & ISA instead of a MSCA/MCSE.

Thoughts?

 

[BoomAM]

That's just not true I'm afraid. You can't teach someone business instinct, but you can teach them the technical stuff. Most techies are carp salesmen. They tend to be blunt (tending on downright rude) and semi-incapable of playing nicely with others.

I disagree with that.
It maybe possible to teach a business person the lingo and a few bits and bobs, but if they arnt of the right mind set by nature, then no way are they gonna match a 'techie'. To highlight, not saying they CANT.
And your second point there is making one heck of a sweeping generalisation too.


Plus, i think that conversation is a little off track as its got nout to do with qualifications and whatnot unless im missing the point?



Whats the concencus on ITIL, CompTIA & the new MS stuff?

 

[BoomAM]

There is nothing hard about computers. You tell the computer what to do and it does it. As long as you know the right syntax, structure, whatever. You tell it to do it and it does it. You get books. All the books you get pretty much say the same things. Do this and the computer/switch/OS/Application will do that.

You really think its as simple as that?
What if its not in a book? What if it says exactely how it says in the book and youve put in exactely whats needed to get it working and it still doesnt do what its supposed to do. What then?

I know a lot of IT people. An awful lot of IT people.

Same here, and bar perhaps 5-10% of them, the rest of them you wouldnt think we're in IT unless you knew their jobs.
I still maintain that your making a big generalisation.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

ITIL is fine if you want to be a manager, less useful if you want to handle hardware, but I stand by my earlier point that all training is good. CompTIA is very much for the hardware/software handlers and everyone I know is just confused by why Microsoft feels the need to change the qualification structure when they had firmly established MCSE as a real, proper qualification. Everyonme knows that someone with an MCSE can run a Microsoft system, but who knows with the new structure. You really need all of it, as very few jobs allow you to specialise just in ISA or SQLServer administration - usually they want one person who can do the lot.

If you really like the project stuff, do ITIL or PrinceII. And realistically, it's self-study time I'm afraid. Lifelong learning is the only way forward in IT.

So basically, all summed up:
Project Management/Management: Prince & ITIL.
Software: Microsoft & CompTIA
Hardware(infrastructure): Cisco.

Basically?

 

[BoomAM]

OK - you're still trying to argue logic, when I was arguing abstracts. The whole point is that for every person you meet;

1. There is no manual
2. Even if there was a manual, the persons disposition changes by the moment, so the contents of the manual would be largely useless anyway.

The way you read people is a skill, and it can be taught, but it's much harder than giving someone a text and asking them to get the basics of Codds Laws or Functional Decomposition, never mind literal stuff like what to press in what order to get something to do what you want.

You appear to have, correct me if im wrong, the impression that IT is easy compared to everything else, specifically business.
I disagree with that for multiple reasons.
The same way you think that business cant be taught but IT can because business is a mindset/skill/instinct, i think about IT.
Its possible to know about IT without being good at it. I know plenty who have learnt IT but cant do much because they dont have that 'mindset' to problem solve for example.

Lets just agree to disagree on that point, again. .

That's why, from the very beginning I (and at least two others) were pushing soft skills.

Soft skills? Software?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this (I'd like to think your PC would tell you), but the last link on your signature [wii>all] attempts to download a trojan on opening. Possibly worth knowing.

http://www.walteranderson.com/Images/trojan.jpg

NOD32 doesnt complain?
Avast is over-protective and labels everything bad though. .

 

[BoomAM]

The fact that IT is a complete piece of urine is the best kept secret ever. IT is incredibly straightforward, assuming you are prepared to take the time to learn how to do whatever you want to do. If it was really hard, the starting salaries would be higher, because significantly fewer people would be able to do it. I'm quite happy to yield to your superior knowledge of the IT workplace, given that you appear to have taken no qualifications since you left full-time education (so your employers must be quite happy to dead-end you) and 4 years experience in 2 different roles.

So your resorting to personal digs now? Is this part of the soft skills you go on about? .

As mentioned by another poster, helpdesk IT is a joke and strait forward. But generalising IT like that really does show ignorence on your part on what IT really is.

That's why I use Avast - I'd rather have the choice of downloading a trojan or not. If NOD32 doesn't give you that choice then it's possibly not the tool for me.

Why are you suddenly defensive?
Your free to pick your choice of AV, but critisising NOD32 for no aparent reason is a little daft. Considering it statistically picks up more virii than Avast, and the fact that if you knew more about IT then you'd know that not everything an AV warns about is a virus.

 

[BoomAM]

As it stands, I'm a Senior Network Engineer with the following certifications:
ITIL V3 foundation
RSA SecurID Systems Engineer
CCNA
CCNP - passed last week

Good set of qualifications there. How did you find the CCNA overall?
Ive heard some people say it nails, and others say its quite easy. Hard to gauge.
Is it a Microsoft style thing, as in, the actual answers your supposed to give are nonsence?

What do people think of MCSA vs MCSE?

 

[BoomAM]

I've not understood why people say that about the MS exams.. they've always seemed pretty straight forward to me.

They are for the most part.
But the answers that they want, most of the time, isnt whats generally accepted as the norm IRL. Or what you would actually do, as it seems to expect 100% ideal scenarios for everything, which wouldnt really happen, anywhere.