Question for Dell 2007WFP owners...

Deadalus

Deadalus

Deadalus

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I'm thinking of replacing my Viewsonic VX912 with a Dell 2007WFP...

I'll be doing a lot of gaming, with occasional graphics work, which is why I'm impressed with the reviews of the 2007WFP. I was going to go with the 22" Samsung 226bw, but I'm concerned about it being a TN panel.

A major reason for me wanting to upgrade is the fact that 'blacks' do not look right in games on the Viewsonic. For example in dark areas of F.E.A.R, Oblivion or HL2, the blacks almost look 'reflective'. How will I fair with the 2007WFP?

Thanks for your help.
 
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Contrast ratio of 912B is something like 550:1, the 2007WFP is 800:1, so yes blacks should be darker on the Dell, but don't expect miracles. LCDs shine a very bright light through a thin film and there's no LCD in the world that can block out enough of that light to give anything like real black. Also 800:1 is less than some other screen have these days (on paper at least, since contrast ratio figures are not exactly reliable), although

I did manage to play Doom 3, Fear and the add-on Extraction Point on my 2007WFP, but you do sometimes notice that the black just isn't black.

From the photos I've seen the viewing angles on the TN Samsung SM-226BW don't look bad at all for TN, and with the panel having a 1200:1 contrast ratio (ignore the 3000:1 figure which samsung quote for the screen, that's just the dynamic contrast ratio not static so it's pretty meaningless) and a brightness of 300cd/m2 that means a black depth of 0.25 cd/m2 whereas the 2007WFP is 0.375 cd/m2. So, assuming any of these numbers can be trusted (manufacturers are well known for exagerating LCD specs and using different measurement techniques), if I was buying a screen now I would have to give that SM-226BW some serious consideration, although I'm pretty happy with my Dell.
 
I am very tempted by the Samsung 226bw, enough to say that I think I am leaning more towards it than the Dell. It has got some really great reviews too.
 
the dell is perfect for dark games :) you will be thankful you chose it over the samsung alone due to it's ips quality for graphics work.
 
Black still isn't black though once you turn the lights off. Baddass compared the Dell 2007WFP to the Samsung SM-205BW (TN, 700:1 contrast ratio) and found that the Samsung brought out more detail in dark areas, so you shouldn't assume that because the Dell has the better IPS panel that it's automatically better at displaying black and near black colours-

http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=637&page=5
 
fish99 said:
Black still isn't black though once you turn the lights off. Baddass compared the Dell 2007WFP to the Samsung SM-205BW (TN, 700:1 contrast ratio) and found that the Samsung brought out more detail in dark areas, so you shouldn't assume that because the Dell has the better IPS panel that it's automatically better at displaying black and near black colours-

http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=637&page=5
Click to expand...


I have the samsung and the dell and have used a workmates nec 20" AS-IPS screen and know for fact the dell has better blacks in desktop mode after gamma calibration has been done.

I use it daily in games and recently played Penumbra Overture and I'm sure most will agree that game is one of the darkest of games to come out recently, even darker than Doom III in many parts which I saw little prblems with in resolving details.

HL2 in darker scenes for example are equally good.

game_darkgame.jpg

This scene has a heavy variation of black areas where details are easily lost on the samsung etc but the dell on 45 brightness and gamma calibrated keeps details well within limits.

A TN panel is good but the backlight bleeding is a big put off for many people inc myself who are used to higher quality panels. Nobody likes a bar of white light leaking at the edges or corners during a dark game scene or movie.
 
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Well backlight bleed is due to gaps round the panel edge where the seal isn't perfect, it's not related to panel type. My 2007WFP has some backlight bleed.

But anyway, can I ask whether you ever game in a dark room? I mean properly dark, at night with the lights off. Under those conditions you will see how far black on the 2007WFP is from true black. I also play games that are far more demanding than Doom 3 for black depth, like the Thief series.

I've also owned 2 TN panel screens and 2 older PVA screens, and another brand new IPS screen, and the black depth on the 2007WFP is no better or worse than any of my other screens. I would describe it as typical LCD black depth, it's not an area the screen particularly excells in IMO.

Having said all that I probably still wouldn't get a TN screen today becuase of the viewing angles.
 
Yes I never game or watch a movie with the lights on or blinds rolled up/opened.

As previously said though gamma is calibrated on a per game basis, each game I play has it's own brightness settings ingame like HL2 with it's gamma correction area where you adjust the gamma according to its scale and have no issues at all. Black areas are as black as they're meant to be without drowning out details and pure blacks are pure black on mine. I have the brightness set to 45 and contrast on it's factory default. I also used the nvidia display optimisation tool built into the nvidia drivers to correct colour + gamma whilst in normal windows.

I have also had 2x 2007WFP screens (both using the LPL S-IPS 8ms panel) and both have been excellent in the exact same way.

I don't know if ATI have a different display characteristics on LCD panels but with nvidia I've seen no issues at all.
 
I can see the poor black depth on that photo you posted, plus there's a washed out quality on all colours below a certain brightness I can see on that photo. It's far worse than that in a dark room. If I had a decent camera I would show you how far the blacks on LCDs are from true black but I don't. Maybe you could take a shot of the screen in a dark room sometime and I can show you what I mean?
 
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You have to compensate for flash reflection, in reality it's as I described but that photo is the best representation possible without resting to multiple exposures which is a bit inconvenient.

I assure you there are absolutely no washed out colours below any level, this scene in HL2 is murkier/washier than other parts of the game and the game itself is gritty/washy to start with.

I will take a manual exposure later with no bounced flash.

I also seriously doubt it's as bad as you make out! these screens have been sold by the bucket load and never have I read/ about or experienced washed colours or anything of that sort as you describe.


Every single person who has played a game or watched a movie on mine has expressed how good colours and blacks are, no offense to your views of course :)

I accept it's not quite CRT quality, we're talking OLED for that area, but it and the NEC are the closest LCD examples to a CRT you're going to get today.

The TN panels may well have a different black level but there is absolutely no way their image quality and sharpness beats the NEC or DELL IPS panels.
 
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Thanks for your responses, they have been very helpful.

I think I'm going to start a new thread to canvas people about the Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP vs. the Samsung SM-226BW.
 
mrk/
We seem to be talking about two different things here. I'm saying black isn't black because it's an LCD. You're comparing it to other screens.

I didn't say SM-226BW has better black depth that the 2007WFP. I've never used the Samsung so I couldn't say that, I'm just saying the paper specs are superior (the static contrast ratio of the samsung TN panel is 1200:1) so if I was buying a screen right now, I'd be taking a serious look at the Samsung that's all. Probably if I saw one in the flesh I'd end up buying the Dell again because of the better viewing angles, and maybe Samsungs paper specs are rubbish, but who knows. Also I thought it was worth pointing out what Baddass said when he reviewed 2007WFP and SM205BW because I respect his opinions.

There's no doubt though that black on all LCDs is not true black. I'm looking at my screen right now (lights off, curtains open but it's pretty dark in here being 6pm) with the desktop set to black (brightness 50), and when I compare that black to the screen surround, the screen surround is much darker. The black doesn't get any darker by dropping the brightness either. I notice the problem more when it's darker too. It's just a weakness of LCDs.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the 2007WFP, I love mine, but it only has the same black depth as any other 800:1, 300cd/m2 screen.

edit:I should also say that I didn't comment on colours in general, or sharpness, or image quality, or indeed overall screen quality.
 
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Can anyone confirm that the 2007WFP is still using a S-IPS panel in the UK? Apparently they have switched to PVA in the USA...

Thanks.
 
Are you sure that's current info? I did read about them using PVA temporarily but it was about a year ago and only for a short period while IPS stocks were low. Haven't heard of anyone getting a PVA recently, not since rev A03 and A04 came out.

Of all the panel types PVA probably has the best black depth (hence why most PVAs will have 1000:1 contrast ratio), but I don't think it's quite as quick as the IPS which is one of the quickest panels around, and some detail on certain colours can tend to fade in and out on PVA as you move your head around, at least on the PVAs I've owned anyway.
 
Ok. Afraid I don't know really. You could ask Baddass (moderator of the monitors forum) via PM, he might know whether there's still a panel lottery when buying the 2007WFP.
 
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