quick - need name of barbs for 1/2" tubing that don't need hose clips

JonJ678 said:
It's important to be able to estimate the risk involved. That's called engineering. I know that the barbs and tubing attached to a cpu block when a pump has failed to start are definitely hot to the touch. As such I would little faith in the integrity of a push fit on the cpu block when the pump is not running. That you are indifferent and I am not is reflected in my bothering to research this and you telling me not to bother. Each to their own, it's my few minutes not yours.

Tubing becomes far more flexible when hot. Elongation comfortably triple what it was when cold. Load fails at 35 kg with warm water, fails at 30 with hot (sub boiling) water. Experimental difficulty in keeping the damned thing hot for long enough to load, so the 5kg decrease in capacity is probably at around 60 degrees. Noticeably hot when it splashed out, but not enough to scold.

This concludes the testing I can do, as I have no barbs. Compression fittings showing decreased load when hot supports the notion that push fitted tubing will suffer similar. I believe the decreased load carrying of push fitted barbs is worth investigating if one is not going to use clamps in addition to wall tension. I'm not going to investigate this as 1/I don't use barbs and 2/I don't have any barbs.

p.s. as a potential use, cutting threads in the top of a case and suspending it from a desk as a means of reducing vibrations. Possibly as a convenient fill port as well.
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I'm not telling you to not do your 'tests' but your pushing parts to their limit and then saying they’re not safe when they obviously weren’t designed to accommodate those scenarios. If my pump fails then the PC WILL shut down before the water heats up enough to remove the tubing from the barb. All I'm saying is with 'my setup' it has been fine which then gives me every right to advise people about 'my' experience with 7/16 tubing and 1/2 fat boys. You do seem to be trying to scare monger though with your vigorous 'experiments' and deter people away from barbs.

What you've said about heat and the tubes elongation is correct but again you're talking about temperatures that you're simply not going to get (seatbelts / 500mph). But everyone’s system and setup is different. I have a TFC Quad Rad and a Heatkiller on CPU and Koolance on 4870x2. Temps for the CPU full load don't go above 60 and GPU full load at 38. I've touched the tubes and they aren’t even warm and that is after hours of gaming.

You obviously know more about all of this than I do (when it comes to the experimental side of things) but I'm just giving my opinion of my experiences so far with water cooling.

I’d love to know the fate of my PC then? Please tell me how it will die…

RoEy
 
I don't want to sound like a git in my last post to you John. I can see you love testing stuff and that's what makes us move forward.

Merry Crimbo mate.

RoEy
 
shadowscotland said:
I think JonJ is doing it just for the science

I've lifted my case with one attached to my cpu block.
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Yep and :eek: at the latter, that's a lot of torque acting on the motherboard! I'm confused by "compression barbs", are these normally called push fittings? From your description of the koolance fittings I'm inclined to agree regarding failure criteria, though append that the tubing will probably fail where the barb has cut into it.


RoEy said:
You do seem to be trying to scare monger though with your vigorous 'experiments' and deter people away from barbs.

I’d love to know the fate of my PC then? Please tell me how it will die…
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I did this because I have some time free and I wanted to know what they're capable. Happy may have accidentally encouraged this. Making the bold assumption that no one is going to hang their system from a makeshift crane via the cpu block (excepting ss :D ) I'd say it's obvious that this isn't testing the compressions in normal use. You'd have to be a fool to conclude that a 350N limit makes them unsafe for use in a computer. However I don't know what the limit is for barbs. Again you are more than welcome to try to determine this yourself.

I'm sure they're fine in normal use, but why anyone would chose to use barbs without any clamps is beyond me. I suspect Monkey_Puzzle has geometric constraints which most people don't. I'm using compression fittings because I wish to, not because I consider them superior to barbs + jubilee clamps.

I have no polite retort to the second half of the quote, so I'll just say I hope it lives forever. Merry Christmas to you too. #bah, ruined by the quote button.

Just seen the last part of ss' post, if you don't mind I'd be thrilled to give this a go. I'm essentially limited by what I can achieve with a kettle and a weights bench, but I'm fairly imaginative :)
 
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JonJ678 said:
Yep and :eek: at the latter, that's a lot of

I'm going to hazard a guess that your computer will die as a direct result of your ignorance, though I'm being facetious by this point.
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Cheers mate, well atleast I know now. :D

I've had them with no clamps on now for 6 months and they're still going strong. I have OCD with Computers when it comes to building them. I check, then check again, then check again and again......PaulyD you can vouch for that mate.:D There's no way I would spend so much money if I thought for one second they weren't safe.

Anyway, merry crimbo Jon.

RoEy
 
shadowscotland said:
I think JonJ is doing it just for the science - there is nothing wrong in knowing 'X' compression fail at 350N - infact I'm with JonJ and find that quite low.

I know from experance that removing 7/16 and 1/2 tube from different barbs is variable.
I have some 1/2 Koolance compression barbs (not compression fitting) and 7/16 tube will not come off - the barb tails are so sharp they cut me! and slice into the tube if you pull on it.
With the correct 1/2 tube the locking nut forces the barb to 'bite' into the thick wall of the tube - I think the tube would fail first with koolance fittings.

The feser, bitspower and primochill compression fitting only have the tension nut to fix the tube in place so I guess 350N is enough to streach the tube wall thinner then the fitting fails.

The bigboys are excelent barbs - if you use 7/16 they will not fail (I've lifted my case with one attached to my cpu block. The dtek are almost as good.
Ek barbs - even 7/16 will pull off with a little effort (but that's what they are designed for)

Edit: but MP asked about 1/2 tube with barbs - if you don't want even a cable tie - use koolance compression barbs (only one's I'd use)
but It'd recomend the use of 7/16 monkey puzzle, if you want barbs, but not extras.

the metal ghost primochill barbs may work - never tried them myself.

@ JonJ - I'll send you a few different barbs (and tubes) - always happy to but real numbers to these debates.
@ RoEy - yes it is a seatbelt scenario
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It was the 1/2" metal primochill ghost fittings I was thinking of, with black or white tubing over them (couldn't decide so ordered both:)). Looking forward to coming home to goodies at Christmas.
 
Ah, too slow, and now feel a tit. I missed this "I don't want to sound like a git in my last post to you John." and removed the facetious comment shortly after you quoted me as it no longer felt justified :)

Being careful is important with computers, I'm more negligible than I should be. The only reason I know the cpu block can get very hot is because I forgot to connect the pump to the psu a little while ago. I tend to look at everything in terms of potential points of failure, but not always reasonably. I currently want to get rid of my very useful reservoir as I think it's the most likely part of the loop to leak.

Interested to see what you make of the primochill ghosts, I really like the idea of them (plastic doesn't contribute to corrosion for one thing). Black tubing is excellent at all times when you're not bleeding the system.
 
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JonJ678 said:
Ah, too slow, and now feel a tit. I missed this "I don't want to sound like a git in my last post to you John." and removed the facetious comment shortly after you quoted me as it no longer felt justified :)
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;)

RoEy
 
Ha, just seen this thread..

Think Jon is testing to the extremes (as per usual! :D) And Roey is looking at the everyday usuage angle of things. I wouldn't say anyone is mad for not using clamps on barbs, I certainly didn't for any of my builds and that wasn't even using fat boy barbs. I also know a lot of people who do the same (barbs without jubilee's)

Oh and I can DEFINATELY confirm RoEy has OCD about his PC, my mobile was a direct WC Tech support number for him! :D
 
JonJ678 said:
Making the bold assumption that no one is going to hang their system from a makeshift crane via the cpu block (excepting ss :D )
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It started to fall - I just grabed the tube - not like I did it on purpose or anything. :D

JonJ678 said:
Just seen the last part of ss' post, if you don't mind I'd be thrilled to give this a go. I'm essentially limited by what I can achieve with a kettle and a weights bench, but I'm fairly imaginative :)
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send me your home address and I send you a few types tomorrow.
Don't have any bigboys spare but do have a few types.

qc4.jpg

My koolance QC with compression barb ends
if only they didn't make the nuts out of mild steel they would be perfect (they can rust) if you live in a moist enviroment
 
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shadowscotland said:
It started to fall - I just grabed the tube - not like I did it on purpose or anything. :D

if only they didn't make the nuts out of mild steel t
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That makes more sense. I'm pleased to know a motherboard can tolerate such abuse. I daresay I'll find myself in the same position in time, looking down in fear at a case hanging from a single tube which I'm sure is only attached to the motherboard. With this knowledge I'll be marginally less concerned :D

The nuts might not be so bad to machine replacements for. I think there's a cnc lathe in one of our labs, if I have any success making things on it I'll be in touch. Brass doesn't rust :)

oh, ygm
 
So is anyone going to do a sword of damoclese thing tonight whit a heavy water cooled pc dangling above their head as they sleep, secured by a single 1/2" tube connected to one barb on their cpu block? There is a proper experiment for you Jon.
 
I've ordered the metal ghost fittings - they're not compression fittings; they have no hex bit at the bottom, just a knurled bit the 1/2" tubing goes over which you hand screw in then the tube goes over to grip onto. Theyre thicker than normal 1/2"highflow fittings, they grip 1/2" hose like 7/16 over 1/2 barbs.hopefully will look clean as you don't see any metal and will not need clips. Id link but typing on my phone.
 
Monkey Puzzle said:
they have no hex bit at the bottom, just a knurled bit the 1/2" tubing goes over which you hand screw in then the tube goes over to grip onto.
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These look brilliant. A photo for anyone else who hasn't heard of them

13ygyux.jpg


I think they'll look very nice with opaque tubing.
 
i use promochill ghost fittings and no clips/ties......i had a tube leak on a generic barb so i dont use them anymore, its also worth getting decent tubing not the cheapest you can find.
 
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