Quick TUPE question

hargi

hargi

hargi

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I think I know the answer to this but want go get others opinions.

Company A provides IT Support to a workplace 1, on a yearly contract.

Company B comes along and says we can do it for better/cheaper so the workplace doesn't renew contract with A and goes with B instead.

As far as I can see that's it, simple?

The tech that goes on site at the workplace is employed by Company A, not the workplace so even if company B takes all A's clients there is no TUPE as the clients arnt employing the tech's directly? Have I got that right?

Basically if I take get an IT Support contract at a workplace, I dont have to take on the old staff?
 
If the tech spends the majority of their time supporting this client then TUPE may well apply. If their role entails supporting many clients of which this is just one then it will not.
 
Yes workplace one is a school, Company A is a limited company.
Company A employs many techs and supports lots of schools.
 
This happend at one of the largest companies in the UK a few years back.

I don't think there's anything in the laws/rules regrading old staff of the company, as its a simple contract take over not a tupe. Its up to the old company to deal with their staff.

From my personal experince, it be stupid not to take on some of the old staff with their experince and personal relations, even if it is a limited number. Depending on the prevous company; you may find yourself with all the good eggs or the worst ones; as they won't get a job else where.
 
From dealing with similar I would expect a TUPE to happen, eg every company I know of that has changed cleanign contract on the assumption they will get rid of the poor staff has had a shock as they get TUPE across.

I think its quite normal when you have a contract of supply that the staff move on completion if they are dedicated to that contract.
 
Ok Company A is a bigger company and has a few techs that spend maybe a day a week at each site.
If company B took over support for one of those sites. Then how would that work?

Scenario 2 is company b took over support for 3 sites but each site had a different tech assigned to them by company A then what would happen?
 
Its hard to say exactly. When an employee is basically full time in one job I would expect them to TUPE.
If they are part time then I have seen multiple happen:
I have seen contract splits, so they become employed "part time" by two employers, I think this was by agreement
I have also seen one remain and ones move, normally done by negotiations between 2 companies and the employee.

This isnt a straightforward issue and as such it probably requires specific legal advice in reality. TUPE regulations are there to protect employees to pretty much the same standard as if they were employed directly. Messing up TUPE is pretty much guaranteed to cost you big, if its at all unclear then as I mention above, specialist legal advice is pretty much the only logical move.
 
scenario 1 company B takes on any staff that primarily work on that contract on existing T+Cs

Scenario 2, the same, you take on the 3 staff
 
TUPE appears to be a minefield.

So if I run a team of full time couriers for another company. That other company can't get rid of our contract (as such) If they did they would have(if the staff didn't want to stay with me) to take on my drivers.

That being so. Would they also be obliged to take me on also on my "Current" employment contract.

LTD. I'm the MD

If so whats the point of having a contract.
 
mattyg said:
TUPE appears to be a minefield.

So if I run a team of full time couriers for another company. That other company can't get rid of our contract (as such) If they did they would have(if the staff didn't want to stay with me) to take on my drivers.

That being so. Would they also be obliged to take me on also on my "Current" employment contract.

LTD. I'm the MD

If so whats the point of having a contract.
Click to expand...

Slihgtly different rules for MDs/owners etc
But simply if you have an emplyment contract and you job moves due to a transfer of work then yes. Reality is most owners/MDs etc resign or get offered a new job

Any significant size TUPE would involve looking at specific senior individuals and either paying them off or offering them another (probably similar) senior role
 
TUPE is simply there as a way to protect employees. As I said above thonk of it along the lines of as if they were not employed to service a contract for how its probably going to work.

Imagine youve been an employee of contractor A for 20 years, they lose the account and have no need for you. Contractor B have won the contract and need exactly the same employees as A had. You lose your job as no TUPE exists, be a bit annoyed wouldn't you?
So what happens is B takes the staff as part of the contract and for a period (of probably 90 days or so) carries on as previous. After that they become normal employees (with existing rights) and you can deal with them as any employee, so you can change terms etc with negotiation and correct notice periods
 
If company A is still providing the computer services to other companies in the area, there's a good chance they don't want any of their staff TUPE'd across.
 
slinxy said:
If company A is still providing the computer services to other companies in the area, there's a good chance they don't want any of their staff TUPE'd across.
Click to expand...

Agree, and thats where some negotiation is sensible between the 3 parties involved (existing employer, proposed and employee)

TUPE is there to protect the employee, not to make life easy or difficult for the employer.

The starting point would probably be that the "target" employer would be the one giving the employee most work going forwards from existing workload.
 
I have worked for an IT services company for many years and we frequently have staff join us from the previous service provider (not the Customer) when we take over a contract. And vice versa.

So yes I would expect TUPE to apply but whether it applies to an individual member of staff will depend on how much time they have book to the account in question over a set period (as defined in the negotiations)
 
I think its a difficult law I can see both sides. I see that its difficult for a client to get rid of unwanted techs just by simply changing supplier but if thats the law,its the law.

To sum it up I'm company B however there is just me in it, and I only have two clients at the moment. My aim is to get 2 or 3 more clients so I have a full time week at IT Support. However I would not and do not want to employ anyone else. It would be uneconomic for me to do so.
 
hargi said:
I think I know the answer to this but want go get others opinions.

Company A provides IT Support to a workplace 1, on a yearly contract.

Company B comes along and says we can do it for better/cheaper so the workplace doesn't renew contract with A and goes with B instead.

As far as I can see that's it, simple?

The tech that goes on site at the workplace is employed by Company A, not the workplace so even if company B takes all A's clients there is no TUPE as the clients arnt employing the tech's directly? Have I got that right?

Basically if I take get an IT Support contract at a workplace, I dont have to take on the old staff?
Click to expand...

From the limited info, I would say the principle of TUPE applies. However, having led this process through a few times now in the last few years, it is a legal and HR minefield, even when both parties are onboard with it and working together.

1) First port of call for you is ACAS, discretely.

2) Second is to decide if you can transfer, whether you want to, you don't have to but will the loss of this contract undermine your company or job stability?

3) Then, you need to write to your employer, informing them you believe TUPE applies to you. Your employer should then engage with the new supplier if they are not doing so already.
 
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