there is no specified time limit, you cannot change T+Cs as a result of the TUPE but can for operational reasons unrelated
Quick TUPE question
- Thread starter hargi
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there is no specified time limit, you cannot change T+Cs as a result of the TUPE but can for operational reasons unrelated
I can understand the law wanting to protect Mrs Mop the cleaner etc... but when it comes to professionals it is a bit ridiculous
the guy your PR firm has assigned to you full time screws up, you want a new PR firm... oh you've got to keep the same muppet... ditto potentially to solicitors, management consultants, IT consultants etc..etc..
the guy your PR firm has assigned to you full time screws up, you want a new PR firm... oh you've got to keep the same muppet... ditto potentially to solicitors, management consultants, IT consultants etc..etc..
Soldato
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Companies don't have to take them, there are ways round TUPE even when it applies. Even if they do take them, the employee may be on their old contract terms initially but they will still have to perform to the new targets and performance management frameworks etc.
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If these are part-time clients then TUPE may not apply. TUPE only affects roles that are principally concerned with a particular task so someone who works full time at employer X (whether employee or contractor) is usually covered whereas someone who covers 5 different clients is unlikely to be.
It can be a very messy area (there is a large grey patch full of maybes, possiblies and probablies).
For those who refer to getting rid of underperforming staff, there are other processes in place to deal with this - like capability. One of the main principles underneath TUPE is that on-site (or directly associated) staff have similar rights whether direct employees or contractors.
Our cleaners, canteen staff and local IT support (but not remote helpdesk) don't get made redundant when you change the contract provider. When it's a large client, the contractors probably rely on keeping the old staff. You can't just magic an army of (possibly vetted) staff overnight nor can their old company make them redundant instantly.
TUPE is generally a good thing all round, but if you try to do something the wrong way then it might bite you.
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All of those are likely to be project-based roles which come and go with projects. So a reasonable expectation that the PR guy works for other companies in the middle and so probably not TUPE. ditto to solicitors, management consultants, IT consultants.
And even if it did apply, there are more likely to be ways around it.
often they are yes but sometimes they're not, and it isn't that rare
I know of Solicitors who have been seconded to banks for extended periods of times, where I work we have consultants on client sites for years at a time... tis perfectly possible for some professionals to occupy their time with just one big client/account. We've got some guys who've been on site at the same Bank for almost a decade.
I think the solicitor example was a potential concern when the legislation was passed as there is that theoretical scenario that a whole team would have to be employed by a competitor.
If the school want to pay company B to provide a service to the school with company B employees, why would there be a TUPE of anyone from company A?
If company B was to buy the part of company A that provides the service then there would be a TUPE from A to B, however that does not appear to be the case.
If company B was to buy the part of company A that provides the service then there would be a TUPE from A to B, however that does not appear to be the case.
The contract I work on has been lost by the current providers, all are being TUPE'd over to the new contract providers.
There's a number of drop in sessions with the new providers, someone has put up a list of questions they want answered. Having been TUPE'd before, I can answer all of them. Unnecessary flappage!
There's a number of drop in sessions with the new providers, someone has put up a list of questions they want answered. Having been TUPE'd before, I can answer all of them. Unnecessary flappage!
Soldato
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Correct, but its based on reasonable so most cos I have worked with go for 90 days (or more)
Correct as soon as you bed them in as an employee you can do the same as any other employee and the same reasonableness considerations come into play. eg working hours changes etc
Soldato
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Do you have contact details for previous supplier, if so speak to them. If its a small part of someones job you should probably say you assume they will not want to TUPE and it will be sorted if they agree.
If they say no we want to (possibly for other reasons such as poor performance or tey are overstaffed) then suggest you get legal advice based on it being a small amount of someones workload not a full time job.
what sort of changes are you referring to? TUPE is indefinite if changes are related to the transfer
as you and others have said a lot if vague but it's something you do not what to fall foul of
Soldato
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as I said working hours etc
to be honest you can do most stuff because nothing is directly related to TUPE
Such as harmonisation of pensions, working hours, bonuses. Its far easier to defend if it also involves changes to original employees as well.
Where you wouldn't want go really is pay, but Ive even seen that done, its just more tricky.
Most of your existing contractual terms and benefits, even pay can be changed with the correct notice period and consultation. As I said most of the time you don't go near the TUPE employees for a period, such as 90 days in order to avoid the "automatic" defence of it was related to TUPE. They may still try to pull this card at a later date, as long as you evidence there was a business need, such as to reduce costs, then your in quite a strong position.
By far the best solution is to get them to sign a new contract on your standard terms and conditions, its normally only an issue if there are very significant differences, but even then you can whittle them down, discretionary things such as pay rises and bonuses help to focus the mind when you don't get one due to signing a new contract and everyone who did sign gets them
pensions aren't covered by TUPE anyway, I got stitched up there when TUPE'd from the company I worked for to another company owned by the first company
they offered us the "opportunity" to go onto T+Cs of new company but they were so much worse no one did
they offered us the "opportunity" to go onto T+Cs of new company but they were so much worse no one did
Soldato
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Yes of course, if there was a break the "old" company would need to commence redundancy if they didnt have work for the employee servicing that contract.
You could just keep quiet and see if the old company even contact you.
When TUPE happens it forces the companies to correspond as employee records etc need to be passed. I cant think of anything that says which patry specifically instigates the conversation but experience is that its normally pushed by the company taking over rather than the one that lost/sold up
You could just keep quiet and see if the old company even contact you.
When TUPE happens it forces the companies to correspond as employee records etc need to be passed. I cant think of anything that says which patry specifically instigates the conversation but experience is that its normally pushed by the company taking over rather than the one that lost/sold up
you could be digging yourself a big hole there, no tribunal would believe the customer left themselves with no support